because if you preempt early, it makes their lives extremely difficult. just passing wisely and then coming in or something like this doesn't. If I didn't hold the K♥ and the AQ♣ I would agree with you. Why bid game when it might just be a part score battle? I was just responding to your question which I perceived as general. I'm still not sure of 4 or 3 (or even 1, which is pretty bad though). I really dislike 0 spades though. I mean it's perfectly plausible that nobody can make any game, but with an 8 card suit it's still rather unlikely, wouldn't you say? Are you worried that the hand is going to get passed out? :)