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We play Polish club and 15-17 NT 1. 12-14 (see 6) 2. no i will bid 2c , or speciall 3c that show 15-17 6 clubs and 3 card support. 3. inv nf. 4.natural inv,with 4 cards major. this is good at mp, and its simple, but maybe we will change it one day. 5. 3sp would have 5 card spade, inv, asking for good trumps, since any other 3 would be trail bid. 6. I saw many bid 2sp with very narrow hcp count, i think this is wrong, you will have a big problem with unbalance hand without 4 card support. that is just a bit too strong for 2sp, i think its not a big mistake to strech the 2sp bid, for example 14 hcp 3145 this is very strong, but what are the alternatives ? over 2sp, if partner have a balance hand with 4 card spade, then if he has no bid we are fine in 2sp, if he have 5 card spade he doesnt need too much to continue. Sure this isnt perfect but i dont think the alternatives like 2c would be better since partner would definelty pass 2c with a hand he would have passed 2sp.

Cant say about sayc, but in my version of sayc. 1. 1C 1S 2C 3S is inv 6 card since 2sp would have been weak, with GF you have to bid new suit, usually 2d. 2. 1D 1S 2C 3S again same as 1, with GF you should use the 4th suit. 3. 1D 1S 2C 3H since 2h is forcing, we use 3h to show inv 5-5. 4. 1H 1S 2C 3D same as 3, 2d would be forcing so we use 3d for inv 5-5. some thought : About one and two it depend on what 2sp mean, its not ovious that 2sp should be weak, i know mecwell dont play it as weak in some similar situations, the idea is if partner already has a good club suit for his 2c then if we are weak maybe we can just pass. same logic could work if partner has already showed 5-4, we can settle for his suit . If we believe in that logic we can use 2sp to show something more then weak, maybe 8-10. This is especially true when you play limit opening with weak jump responses, because you can jump respose stronger then normal. In both 3 and 4 you can use the jump as soemthing else, it should be a specific hand , which mean most hands still goes trough the forcing non jumps. Other possibilities are splinter or 5-5 GF.

Totally agree and I NEVER (well nearly) fit my partner with 3 cards ! A fit is 8 cards and when partial contracts will play well in 7 cards fit, it is not the same for game or slam contracts ! When you are shortened in a 4-3 fit, the contracts are doomed most of the times ! If you always raise with 3 cards, you never know where you are ! Maybe you got it wrong, we dont get to games and definetly not to slams with 4-3 fits.

I think never supporting with a 3 cards is wrong. The problem with it supporting 3 cards, is its hard to explain or teach it, much easier to explain that inorder to play in a suit we need 8 cards fit. So with players like my mom i dont even try to explain and just play her way unless its really a must to support a 3 card. Also not every senario is the same, if you have 3154 2c rebid is ok, 3325 1nt is fine, but the worse is 3145 rebiding a 5 cards club suit especially a bad one doesnt do justice to the hand.

both styles are good, but i find many people who try to be 4 handed before then know how to be 2 handed, this lead to bad and short partnerships.

Diamond fit and club control, if you have spade 3 card then you should bid 3sp.

There are usually no ruffs in NT contrcts.

I also think you are wrong, 5-5 major hands have lots of potential,and this potential is hard to mesure before knowing about the 5-5. And about the 5/4 minor major, i play a very simple 4 suit transfer' but even with this simple system 1nt-2nt-3d-3M is a short suit not 5-4. 5-4 are bid using stayman.

:D ;) :D :)

Seems wrong that the slam bidding will start after 4sp. i dont know what was 3nt, but you should have (maybe you did) showed slam intrest before, and if partner doesnt like it, then let him play 4sp.

Are you sure we dont have the 9 of club ? my brain is smoking. Well i dont think it can be made if east play heart on the first round.

I think this is worse then spade finnese.

upps just lost the 1nt-2nt cell . :lol:

I checked a bit, i saw ETM and AMBRA both bid 2d with the 12-14 bal , with relays , and save 2nt for stronger hands. and there is the nice answer you got somewhere else which hope its ok that ill quote I play two different schemes with a strong NT, with different partners a) 1D-2C- 2D any hand that can't bid anything else (including weak NT), F1 2NT 18-19 balanced rest as above or :rolleyes: 1D - 2C 2D - min unbalanced 2H - 12/14 or 18/19 balanced/4441 singleton club 2S - spade reverse 2NT - heart reverse 3C - min unbalanced with 4 clubs 3D - FG 6+ diamonds 3H - forcing club raise that doesn't want to go pass 3NT or heart splinter (3S asks - the forcing raise is usually 18-19 bal, 3NT to play opp heart splinter) 3S - splinter 3NT - 4441 15-17 after 1D - 2C - 2H 2S = fg relay, bid on assuming opener is 12-14 balanced (3C = 44 in the minors, 3D = 5 diamonds, 3NT = 3343 minimum, 3H/3S = natural 44 in the suit & diamonds, 2NT = anything else) 2NT/3D = invitational 3C = fg with clubs (we play 1D-3C inv otherwise you could play 3C here as forcing) > Steven

This is a major problem, i prefer to bid 3nt with 14 hcp and not waste this bid for 18-19 which is rare, but im sure there are better solutions to this, you have 2d/2h/2s and we can use them to solve this problem.

I want to see the hands.

Sometimes the opponents leave the table after in the middle of a play, and its ovious that no one will want to continue the hand for them, most ppl (including me) will claim something, usually all tricks, because we dont know how many tricks to claim and want to see the all hand. This result in a freaky score, which effects the results on the other tables. I suggest you make it imposible to claim like that, the right way is to give avg+ for the player who claimed when his opponents arent present. There is a little flaw in this , because ppl tend to leave when they have a disaster score waiting for them, and maybe avg+ wouldnt be always right, but i think its the best option and better then it is today.

Maybe the positon of the A and K of club should be reversed.

QJ10x xx Axxx xxx Kxxx xxx Jxxx Kxx Kx xxx Jx Kxxxx Q10x xxx Jxx xxx QJx xxx Jxx Kxx J10xx xx Qxx xxxx AQ xxx xxxx xxx KJ10 xxx xxx xxxx KQx xxx Axx xxx 109xxx xx Q10x xxx should i continue ? Declarer has: 4 AKQJ98 K72 AQ2 P has: QJ10x xx Axxx xxx Declarer has 9 quick tricks 6♥2♦1♣ both in NT and in ♥, but he has a chance to get the 3rd ♠ or the finess in ♣ as trick number 10. So the chance is better than 50% to make 4♥as well. Kxxx xxx Jxxx Kxx Declarer can loose 2♦(AQ behind K), 4-5♠ (AQ behind K) so he might be 2-3 down in 3NT before he makes his first trick. But he has 9 sure tricks in 4♥ and if one of the kings or the J♦ makes a trick he has 4♥. Kx xxx Jx Kxxxx Same as the hand before but declarer can loose much more tricks in ♦ and ♠since opps have more. Opps can't get more than 3 quick tricks in 4 ♥ und you can ruff a ♦ or draw the ♣ if they are not worse than 3-2. Q10x xxx Jxx xxx You have 7 tricks if opps let you, almost no stop in ♠ and weak stop in ♦, i don't think that you make 3NT. If opps can draw your ♠Q they have at least 5♠, 2 acces and ♦Q. You risk going down 4! You will go down in 4♥ too, but no more than 3. I would still prefer to play ♥. QJx xxx Jxx Kxx Nice hand for 3NT, but if you make it, you need to stop a ♦ or a ♠ so you will make at least +1. In that case you will make 4♥as well. J10xx xx Qxx xxxx Great ♠ stop! Opps play 4 rounds of ♠ if they are not 4-4 you will loose another spade when ♦A or ♣K make a trick. To make it you need ♠4-4 and ♦expass or ♣ finesse. (If 4-4 AK9x should not be behind JTxx..) 3NT is not better than 40%. In 4♥ you need ♦ expass and ♣ finess to work, about 25%. First time 3NT is a little better, but with this hand i would have passed 3♥. AQ xxx xxxx xxx Declarer has 8 quick tricks 6♥1♠1♣ both in NT and in ♥. 3NT have a good chance. If you make an overtrick there is a good chance to make 4 ♥ too. This time 3NT is better, but if ♠ is lead and the finess does not work, and spade is played again.... you better get some valium. In 4♥ you can take the ace follow ♠ yourself and a gain a table entry if opps play ♠. KJ10 xxx xxx xxxx You need opps to get your ♠ trick and they can eliminate you on ♦. Seems that all hand with enough HCP only in ♠ are a little better in 3NT. KQx xxx Axx xxx No doubt over 3NT or 4♥. 109xxx xx Q10x xxx You make 3NT with this? I see opps take 4♠ and ♦A at once. Since the strong hand is dummy opps may try to play ♣ before you drop them on ♠. At 4♥ you can ruff ♠ try to develope ♦ and play ♣ finesse. Not the best chance, but much better as 3NT and you will not go down more often. So 2-3 of your 10 hands are better in 3NT than in 4♥. All hands are weak and the HCP are in ♠. Since your intention was to show hands that are better in 3NT than in 4♥ this is not convincing. Well i dont want to get into it, but many things your analyzation of the hands are bad, try to calculate the chances and you might understand how wrong you are on. Anyway its enough for me about it.

Very good and impressing post. After reading most of it , i decided that its too complex for my partnership for now.

I think you are wrong here. 5-2 are usually better then 4-3, on a bidding like 1S-1NT-2H many people would correct partner to 2sp with 3 hearts and 2 spades, even tho there is a chance partner has 5-5 this is because they know most of the time 5-2 will be better then 4-3. The resson supporting a 4 card opening with a 3 cards works well is because an opening of 4 card will many times have 5 cards, especially in major, waiting for 4 cards will get you a bad result.

It is a great article, I read it and learn from it, but i also anylized it and desided to play non serious 3nt, and cue bids at the 5 level (unless jumped). Its good to see that fred now believe in it too.

Never heard if kokish but this problem bugged me too, last two times i held a nice 14 hcp i bid 3nt and was afraid partner would take it as 18-19. 2nt 12-14 is a problem.

This is a nice double dummy. If you get it right, you will know, so maybe you better not kill it for others too early. You are in 6♥ and west leads a diamond. [hv=n=sakqj6hd8765432ca&w=sh5432dakqj109c1087&e=s1087542h9876dcj62&s=s93hakqj10dckq9543]399|300|you play 6♥ West lead A♦[/hv]

>if you see 5 card major in their cc, or you ask and get a response that >it show 5 card, you have a case imo. Completely wrong. Players have an obligation to disclose agreements, not specific hand holdings. Ok i agree that a 5 cards major system doesnt have to have 5 card on every hand, but what about a specific question, you ask "what does this 1sp show" and they responde "5+ cards in spades" This isnt a complete answer because they know there are hands which they open on 4 card, the question is should they tell us about it. I think thoreticly they should, because saying it show 5 spades is not true, or in other words a lie, practicly im not sure maybe it suppose to be common sense.