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To play may not be a very good explanation, but its both sides duty to make sure the message pass, so if you say "to play" and im not sure what this mean i will ask again.

New suit after you doubled show a hand that was too good for overcalling this suit in the first place. Now if you have double 1d and then bid heart it mean your hand is too good for 1h , this in my partnership would be a good 17 hcp. if you doubled 1d and then bid clubs, it mean your hand was too good for 2c overcall which in my system would be more like a good 19. Since these new suits over doulbe arent forcing, they need a max strengh too, which will be few hcp more, maybe 17-21,19-22 and when i have a better hand id double and cue bid. Jumps over double is rare probebly very strong hand with a solid or semi solid sut.

This is very intesting, Richard you are saying that even if we knew there is no game it would still be bad because it would be too dangerous and easy for the opponents to double. If that is true or even partly true then oviously this has no use, you pay in less accurate and bad constructive to get something not to get double.

Yes i didnt even think of the transfer openings when i opened this thread. Yes we could have a game but i think we can still handle it, First with moscito kind of agressive opening in first seat game is rare, and if needed you could lower the range even more to 0-13, game would be with a good fit or with very strange hand and it could be handle by cue bidding or some other way. I didnt post this as a new system i think about, just as an idea which crossed my mind while reading the post about psyching 1nt. Sure such a system will never be 100% as good as accurate as normal but if u have maby 70-80% it might be good enough.

Well that seems reasonable. And after having given my last post a little more thought (probably should of done that BEFORE posting lol), it occurd to me that if I dbld and then bid 2S over a 2C or 2D response that would clearly indicate that the hand was not Equal Level Conversion and so there would be no need for a jump to 3S in that sequence.....I think. :) You're missing something. Only the bid of exactly one suit above ur bid can ever be considered to be 2 suiter, any other bid is always gosh, so bidding 2h over 2c by partner is gosh.

The question is who this range hurt more. If you know ur side doesnt have a game, its pretty easy for you to bid, you just follow the law of total tricks in your partsocre combat. for your opponents it would be alot harder since they should not only find their suit but also find wather they have a game or a slam.

This sounds interesting, but I do have 1 question. Given the sequence... (1H)-DBL-(Pass)-2C Pass- Would the doubler then need to make a jump to 3D or 3S in order to show a hand with additional values? If so I'm not sure I like having to push the auction to 3S just to show 18 points and a solid S suit. You can find good guidlines to when its gosh and when its not in robson segal book. To your question, first they streach the overcall, especially the 2 level overcall, so in your example with a diamond suit and 18 hcp 2d is still the bid, and the need for gosh become rare. second if you have a diamond gosh, and you double and decided to double to show gosh, you already taken into consideration that partner might bid 2sp, which you will need to bid 3D, so if you were ready to bid 3d, then you will be ok with a jump to 3d incase partner bid 2c.

I began this topic, calling it third seat systems, but while writing i thought it fits moscito best. What do you think of of using the non 1♣ opening in moscito to show 0-14 hcp in third seat ?

This thread will help me explaning the 2 level overcall to some friends in israel. sadly here most teacher teach an overcall at the 2 level is 10-15 hcp, whith 16 you should double, and as those friends are aggresive they streatch it up abit and last week iv seen i 5 card 6 hcp 2c overcall.

Thanks for all the answers, it helped me decide not to play play gosh only over 1 level opening.

The first question is about Dobule, should we use it for penalty, i think today almost all experts gave up the penalty double. Dont is just a simple system which catched nicely like other tools of bergen, i dont think its because its that good, its few factors that working together, bergen's books popularity, the cool name, the simplicity and the agressivness. I dont think dont is the best because if you look at exeperts no one play it, infact you can see they are all using a version of the same idea using the double to show minor +major with longer minor. I also play this but i never really took the time to think whats so good with it. Anyway in balancing position, things change and the double is used as a t.o double, something like an opening streangh.

I think bidding 3sp instead of 3h is better. also instead of 4h is an option to consider.

I pass

The trick with small to the 9 is that when after it loses to the J/q on the second round you u play to the 8 and if LHO has a single you get a "second chance" and can raise up with the K and finnese to the other side.

some players are bad losers, nothing you can do about it, otehr then ignore them.

Impressing how serious some partnerships here are.

playing the K and then double finnesing seems better then the AK line. You will lose to QJx ofside, but win the QJxx onside which is more likely. not saying its the best line.

ID say this, i believe its tehoretically best to play this as non forcing, but i think it make life alot easier if it would be forcing and even my not too solid but still regular partnership , i will think its forcing.

Ic , yes you are right, just misread ur post.

Could the 1d bidder hold 4-5 spades ? If he could i will lead my A of diamond, if not ill lead the J of hearts.

Ignore this, misread it Are you sure ? I think you are wrong, 10,9,k, or 109xx are 4 combos of 4-1 while KT9xx or KT9x are 3 combos of 4-1 and 1 combo of 5-0, so the first is more likely, isnt it ?

Im not good with 4-3 fits and so i cant find better then already given, but i think its a mistake playing on 4-3 here, you play mp dont even give the opponents the extra information about stopers just bid 3nt, you have 10xxx in diamond, on most hands it will be enough, playing for most hands is what mp is all about.

Some ppl has great memory and for them it might be best to do it your way memorizing combo's by books and comps. For me i dont even sure I remember the few combos we have seen here this week, if i have them at the table ill have to think again but since i remember something and i practiced i might get it right. Memorizing doesnt work for me.

Maybe its just me, but when i have someone who know and whiling to share i shut up so ill have more time listening, so i can learn more, i only argue if there is something i didnt understand and doing this knowing im seeking to learn rather then oversmart the person. If i finnaly find someone i know he know the game, like for example luis, i will read everything, actually it will even be ok if ill learn a mistake once in a while,at worst i will make an expert mistake. Having someone like fred posting is just amzing.

The bidding is a abit strange, not really understand partners double. everything tells me not to bid 3nt, but i would with most partners.