thorvald

I think you are wrong here. It is possible to define hands, where you should bid 4N or 5Mi based on hcp and length in the minor. Then you can add simulations for the advanced bots on the more freakish hands. Just like you can define hands, that would double for penalty here. Principle for needing game-level points is fine for generic rules. Just to clarify: There should never be a need for simulation for the first bid of a hand (like here)

I think 4N is undefined - but the hand felt just to good for bidding 4♥, so I improvised :-) My opponent bid 4♥ and was left there to play.

[hv=pc=n&s=s32hakq865daj4ck2&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1c2s3hp3s(Cue%20bid%2C%203%2B%20C%2C%2011-21%20HCP)p]133|200[/hv] Strange explanation, and I have no idea about the hand GIB can have. I ended up bidding 4N and GIB bid 5♣ - are you getting closer?

My opponent did handle the error :-) [hv=url=https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=pn%7CHuman%2CRobot%2CRobot%2CRobot%7Cst%7C%7Cmd%7C4SK8H6DKQT83CAJ975%2CSAQT62HT843D95CQT%2CS7HJ52DAJ64CK8432%2CSJ9543HAKQ97D72C6%7Csv%7CE%7Cah%7CBoard%206%7Cmb%7C1S%7Can%7CMajor%20suit%20opening%20--%205%2B%20%21S%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points%7Cmb%7C2N%21%7Can%7CUnusual%20notrump%20overcall%20--%205%2B%20%21C%3B%205%2B%20%21D%3B%2012%2B%20total%20points%3B%20forcing%7Cmb%7C4S%7Can%7CPreemptive%20raise%20--%204%2B%20%21S%3B%209-%20HCP%3B%206%2B%20total%20points%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C4N%7Can%7C5%2B%20%21C%3B%205%2B%20%21D%3B%2018%2B%20total%20points%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C5C%7Can%7C3%2B%20%21C%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cmc%7C11%7C]399|300[/hv]

[hv=pc=n&n=s7hj52daj64ck8432&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1s2n(5-5%20minors)4s?]133|200[/hv] A simulation would probably solve this, but for the not advanced bots, I think there is an error in the bidding database, when passing on this hand

Most of the time the bot gives me surprising tricks, but here was one I didn't figure out (From Zenith daylong, so advanced robots) [hv=pc=n&s=sk9653hatdq52ck82&w=sat87h863dt64cj54&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1nppp]266|200[/hv] I lead ♠5 to the Q in north and declarer dropping the J. North switched to ♥9->J->A->3 And I played ♥T ->6->7->4 Now it was difficult to find how to continue, so I decided to play ♠3->A->4->-2 (thinking the bot assumed I had a short suit lead) GIB in East played a ♦ to the Ace, partner dropping the 9. Now GIB played ♦8. How are the ♦s?

From todays Zenith Daylong (So advanced robot, but opening bids are the same for both type of robots) [hv=pc=n&n=skt97654hqdqtcqj7&d=w&v=e&b=16&a=pp1hp2c(Drury)3s]133|200[/hv] Like sending 1st serve in tennis directly in the net on purpose So the EW bots easily bid to 6♥

Strange that GIB could not find an opening bid on this (Advanced robot) [hv=pc=n&n=sakq6432h95d52cjt]133|100[/hv] Even alone vulnerable this is a weak 2 or 3♠

Interesting problem To show the Button with "Play" there has to be an auction or a played card So https://www.bridgeba...&d=n&v=b&&a=-nd will not show the buttons as you have seen. I found a trick to add the buttons in this situation by adding a played card, looking like this https://www.bridgeba...v=b&&a=-nd&p=c2 Now the problem is that there is no declarer, so when pressing play it is not possible to select any card We can use the a=- a more subtle way, by using a=-2dn but that would still place East as the one to lead So using your nice little trick we can change it to https://www.bridgeba...=b&&a=-2dw&p=c2 Now the auction is not displayed and only if you look in lower right corner you will see west as declarer - and that box is not correct anyway as the tricks are incorrect Last trick is to hide the box with declarer and tricks, and the only way I have found it can be done is editing the page after it is shown (setting the box to hidden)

[hv=pc=n&s=skhkqj62dkj7ckq82&d=w&v=0&b=1&a=1dpp1h2dpp?]133|200[/hv] I was considering my options here, and among other bids 2N was a possibility until I hoovered over the bid and saw the explanation, do you have an idea?

Now Stephen Merriman have mentioned multiple times that GIB is having difficulties with responders second bid with 12 HCP, as 4th suit forcing requires 13 HCP, but it seems that there is a sequence where that is not right [hv=url=https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=pn%7CThorvald%2CRobot%2CRobot%2CRobot%7Cst%7C%7Cmd%7C4SAJHA742D874CKT53%2CSQ865HQDAT63C8642%2CST7HKT3DKQJ95CQJ7%2CSK9432HJ9865D2CA9%7Csv%7CE%7Cah%7CBoard%206%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C1C%7Can%7CMinor%20suit%20opening%20--%203%2B%20%21C%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C1D%7Can%7COne%20over%20one%20--%204%2B%20%21D%3B%206%2B%20total%20points%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C1H%7Can%7C3%2B%20%21C%3B%204%2B%20%21H%3B%2011%2B%20HCP%3B%2012-18%20total%20points%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C1S%21%7Can%7CFourth%20suit%20forcing%20--%204%2B%20%21D%3B%203-%20%21S%3B%2012%2B%20HCP%3B%2013%2B%20total%20points%3B%20forcing%20to%203N%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C1N%7Can%7C3%2B%20%21C%3B%204%2B%20%21H%3B%202-3%20%21S%3B%2011-14%20HCP%3B%2012%2B%20total%20points%3B%20partial%20stop%20in%20%21S%3B%20forcing%20to%203N%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C2H%7Can%7C4%2B%20%21D%3B%204%2B%20%21H%3B%203-%20%21S%3B%2012%2B%20HCP%3B%2013%2B%20total%20points%3B%20forcing%20to%203N%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C4H%7Can%7C3%2B%20%21C%3B%204%2B%20%21H%3B%202-3%20%21S%3B%2011%2B%20HCP%3B%2012-14%20total%20points%3B%20partial%20stop%20in%20%21S%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CDQ%7C]399|300[/hv] Here only 12 HCP is needed Unfortunately the Bot had placed one of the ♦s among the ♥s, so once again we found a terrible contract

And it ended up being another dull push as I went 2 down, and this was the replay [hv=url=https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=pn%7CHuman%2CRobot%2CRobot%2CRobot%7Cst%7C%7Cmd%7C3SK9432H9DAKQTCKT3%2CSAQJT5HJ86DJ8C952%2CS8HAT543D5432CJ76%2CS76HKQ72D976CAQ84%7Csv%7C0%7Cah%7CBoard%201%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C1S%7Can%7CMajor%20suit%20opening%20--%205%2B%20%21S%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CD%7Can%7C3%2B%20%21C%3B%203%2B%20%21D%3B%203%2B%20%21H%3B%209-11%20HCP%3B%2012-%20total%20points%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CS9%7C]399|300[/hv] Would you try to run on the North hand?

[hv=pc=n&n=s8hat543d5432cj76&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=pp1sppd2dp2h]133|200[/hv] Yes, you have a maximum, but then you at least could bid 3♦ 2♦ did here show 5+♠ and 4+♦ and 2♥ said nothing about ♦

I am mostly surprised by the explanation [hv=pc=n&n=st8hqtdaqj7632c85&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=1s2hppd3h4d(5%2B%2C%2012-16%20total%20points)]133|200[/hv] How can a passed hand have 12-16 total points?

Edited, should be ok now

Normally when I get a zero it is because I did something stupid, but here I think it was unlucky. But let us see if you can do better [hv=pc=n&w=sk8hakqdAKT2cK965&d=e&v=b&b=13&a=1hp2d3sp4s?]133|200[/hv]

Sorry I did not add the alert, when creating the board in the forum, but I assumed it was well-known that is how the bot plays. Personally I believe in Full Disclosure, and alerting is not waste of time, but help us to a nice game.

When West played ♥A it stopped looking like bridge :-) Now let the bots find the best continuation doing simulations, assuming the opening lead is from shortage. A bridgeplayer would know that the lead is at least from a 5-card suit, and know it probably is from KT9xx. Of course a clever declarer might lead ♥ without the suit stopped, but that is not normal play.(If the bot can see 9 tricks outside ♥ for declarer the deal should be discarded in the simulations) But yet another fine example of why reasoning in bridge is important, and why the Bots still are way behind the good bridge players

At BBO there are two versions of GIB, a free version (used in the free daylongs, challenges, bidding practice) and an advanced one, used in the non-free daylongs, and in challenges and bidding practice if you pay for it. I think when you play a tournament against real opponents you will pay for the robot used but the free is cheaper. Currently BBO is testing Argine (Developed for FunBridge) in som regions of the world https://bridgewinner...w/it-has-begun/ The last update of GIB (Owned by BBO) is from february 2019 : https://www.bridgeba...ystem_notes.php From the page about GIB: It's difficult to describe precisely how GIB defends. It doesn't use rules and guidelines, like humans often do. It simulates hands based on the auction, using double dummy analysis to determine the average result of each defensive play, and chooses the one with the best average. Sometimes this simulation comes up with the same choice that a human would make (there's a good reason for some of the guidelines -- they actually work well), but not always (some of our rules of thumb have become popular simply because they're easy to remember and "good enough"). When it has a choice of equivalent cards, it will choose based on leading and signalling conventions. GIB doesn't interpret your signals or make many inferences from the play, it uses simulations based on the auction. However, it's usually able to figure out that when you lead an honor, it's part of a sequence.

I fell into the same trap :-) You should show the deal in the post, and not as an external link, like this: [hv=url=https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?lin=st||pn|~~v3fakebot,~~v3fakebot,kgr,~~v3fakebot|md|2SA954HAT98DAT7CA6,ST32H2D8532CKT932,SKJ876H74DKQ4CQJ5,SQHKQJ653DJ96C874|sv|o|rh||ah|Board%208|mb|P|mb|1S|an|Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205+%20!S;%2011-21%20HCP;%2012-22%20total%20points|mb|2H|an|Two-level%20overcall%20--%205+%20!H;%2010+%20HCP;%2011-18%20total%20points|mb|3H|an|Cue:%20limit%20raise%20or%20better%20--%203+%20!S;%2011+%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|3S|an|5+%20!S;%2011+%20HCP;%2012-13%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|4C|an|Cue%20bid%20--%203+%20!S;%20!CA;%2018+%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|4H|an|1+%20!D;%205+%20!S;%20no%20!DA;%20!HA;%2013%20total%20points;%20forcing|mb|P|mb|6S|an|3+%20!S;%20!CA;%2019+%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|pc|HK|pc|HA|pc|H2|pc|H4|pc|SA|pc|S3|pc|S6|pc|SQ|pc|S4|pc|S2|pc|SK|pc|H3|pc|SJ|pc|C4|pc|S5|pc|ST|pc|H7|pc|HJ|pc|H8|pc|C2|pc|D9|pc|DT|pc|D3|pc|D4|pc|HT|pc|C3|pc|S8|pc|H5|pc|DK|pc|D6|pc|DA|pc|D8|pc|D7|pc|D5|pc|DQ|pc|DJ|pc|CQ|pc|C8|pc|C6|pc|CK|pc|D2|pc|S7|pc|H6|pc|H9|mc|11|]399|300[/hv]

2♣ is a 3+♠ raise

[hv=pc=n&n=sq52ht764d7caqj82&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=1sp1npp2dd]133|200|Double explained as: T/O double - 1-♠; 10+ HCP; Biddable ♦, 12- total points[/hv] Well at least it got the points right

When looking at the definitions for opening 1N GIB will open 1N with a 5-card major if 15-16 HCP, but open 1Ma if 17 HCP. BUT, when opening 1N and bidding 2Ma over competition it shows a 5-card suit with 17 HCP

[hv=pc=n&s=sakq42hqt72dq7ca4&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1c1d1sp1np?]133|200[/hv] The problem here is that 2♥ is NF 3♥ is 5-5 invitational 4♥ is canape with 6+♥ (and still only 4+♠) 2♦ is forcing but showing 5+♣ 2N= NF 3♦=Bar bid showing 6+♦ I selected 3N as the lesser evil and the bot had 3=4=2=4

[hv=pc=n&n=s9876haj2dt852ck7&d=n&v=e&b=9&a=pp1c1sp2c2h(4H%2C%205C%2C%2016-22%20total%20points)p2s(4%2BH%2C%20forcing%20to%203N)]133|200[/hv] It is a difficult hand but 2♠ looks wrong to me