sceptic

ok

so it all boils down to money? :P

actually I called jdonn arrogant as I base that on what he said and several other of his posts in other threads, I do not think I misinterpreted his post, but that may be subjective based on how I want to read what he says, I tend to get the feeling with that particular poster, that he thinks he is some kind of super star, I suppose youth and more hormones than he can handle at this time in his life are to blame or the fact I am an old fart and possibly set in my ways as for handling sarcasm, it is difficult to tell the nature of how something is written in a forum, it lacks facial expression, which would make as lot of comments on here be looked at in a different light , but one of jdonn's comments about me not handling things that are said, I really think you do not know me, I do not get annoyed about anything said on here about me, (one exception was a continual refenence to an condition my daughter suffered from, but I merely explained my point of view and the issue was pleasantly resolved ) , nor do I get annoyed by someone with an opposing view to my own, I am not always right, I also have a thick skin, you were in fact the only one responding after getting annoyed at something that was written (well the only one that has admitted it) the way I write is not based on an extreme reaction (EVER) it is something I say, please do not assume, I reacting in a thoughtless fashion. I do know what I say and I do think about it. (sometimes not enough, but thats a different story)

I dont like the comment about going further in life, you have no idea what I am or what I do in life, nor do you have any idea what my life is like, I would not consider being thought of as a rationaled well thought out poster on here would in anyway enhance my life, I accept you may think I am talking crap, that is an opinion you are entitled to and probably does apply to me on occasions, if you feel on this occasion great you are entitled to think that and even post it. I do have trouble expressing myself as well as most of you on occasions, especially in written format, that does not mean that just because you don't like the way I put things, does not entitle me to have an opinion, I think the world would be a worse place if only people with good educations had a say, but I do find that looking down your nose at people like me is not really the way forward, I do find the forum elite (and there are a few posting here on this thread) are somewhat a pain in the ass and that is an opinion that an awful lot of people that don't post here have. Do you truly believe that I would want the death penalty regardless of if an inoccent person got executed? Do you believe that I could not be swayed to change my mind if some one actually gave a good reason and an workable alternative, I would not change my mind? I am probably a lot more flexible in my opinons than most of you here, I learnt a long tme ago, I am not always right and have had to change my opinion because I was wrong, I have seen nothing here that actually would sway my opinion on this matter, nor I doubt would any of the arguements sway some of the others that voted yes curently my experience of life death and the judicial system sways me to believe that executing someone in certain circumstances is a very valid option (it is not something I would be proud of, nor would it be something I would want dealt out by some idiot with a desire for killing people because they liked it) and not one to be dismissed by a life is sacrosant arguement, which is how I percieve some of your views, my emotional response if to hang draw and quarter the bastards and make them suffer as much as the victim, but I am fully aware that this is not going to happen I really wonder about people sometimes, how much money, time and resource are we going to spend trying to rehabilite these vile evil people in our society, because if we do not try and rehabilitate them, it is surely crueller to lock them up forever with no hope, than to impose a death sentance on them another aspect about the sanctity of life, where do we draw the line or is sanctity of life only applicable to humans, how many of you have deliberately stood on an ant because it was a pain in your house, how many of you go hunting with no respect for life (I really would like to know that one) You have the moral high ground but we live in an immoral world

I'm not sure why I would even argue with someone who hasn't bothered to even read the original question. I tossed nothing in, that was the phrasing of the original question. I'm not sure you are even arguing. 'I'm right and if you don't understand why then too bad for you' is not an argument. Nor do you have any idea whether I even voted in the poll. haha, What do you mean I am right, such an arrogant statement, do you take this attitude with everyone that disagrees with you whether you have taken part in the poll is irrelevant, it is your opinion in the posts that shows a total lack of respect for anyones elses view, that is arrogance

Chuck, you're smarter than this. This claim is just silly. it is not silly, you just disagree with it

i didn't realize this was a discussion of what people want. I thought it was a discussion of what we believe to be right. This is irrespective of the will of the people. actually if you read the poll again, it has not thing to do with what people believe is right, it was giving tw o choices what you would do, I have never claimed my opinion is right, just that it is my opinion, one which if you read what I say, is that I do believe in certain circumstances I believe the death penalty is what I would want I have no idea where you draw the line as to what should and should not be punishable by death, I have never entered any discussion about killling the inocent by mistake (at least o this forum, I would assume some of the more inteligent people here, would not think I beleive that a few inoccents die would justify my belief I do not like abortion but I do think that it is a personal choice, so if someone can kill a small child in the womb (you can define life in the womb as you like) that means someone has the right to kill another person (legaly in certain countries , again depending on your take of this) and most of us live with that, a minority object and feel it is probably morally wrong, as they may well feel my opinion is not a good opinion It is very hard to discuss reasons why I think it is right, when it is emotional, I would hate to live in a world when our leaders make decisions based on cold logic only and never take emotions into consideration

I think that this all boils down to the notion of the social contract... The social contract that prevails in most countries holds that the Government maintains a monopoly on force. If an individual chooses to live as part of civilized society he surrenders certain rights, one of which is the right to extract personal justice. People can and do withdraw from the social contract. There are plenty of folks who commit murder. We call them murderers... We have an expectation that the State will deal with them. from my perspective, murder is murder. Vigilantism is a crime. The state or whatever should have the means to decide that someone deserves to die, I would hate to see vigilantees

ok, this is for all the people taking the moral high ground on this if we allowed the death penalty in a country, would that not be because most people actually want the death penalty, I am sure if the majority wanted leiniency then they would abolish the death penalty, funny how the Yanks seem to take the moral high ground on this debate

And yet you have given no argument in support of it beyond naming people who you feel deserve it and trying to appeal to others' emotions about how terrible they are. I would also note it is not the same to say "X doesn't deserve to live" as it is to say "we or our government or anyone else has the right to kill X". note taken and accepted, but what has that to do with the debate except point out that two different things have been said,sometimes I wonder about people on these forums

the arguement that life is sacrosanct is hardly a good argument for the other side

I think the size of my penis is of no concern to you AL

2 lives 1 dies by what ever means you have not saved a life you have merely exchanged one for another

death by self defence or death by well thought out process the end result is the same Al

email George Bush with that one ;)

well I dont think it should be taken lightly, but I just do not believe never

if they shot you, I would probably not worry about it on a personal level, but if it was any 25 year old, it would entirely depend on circumstances, everyone is entitled to a defence and thier time in court, it all depends on where you draw the line, I gave an example of where I see someone who has crossed the line, but I am not so sure where I would draw the line and that is where you made an assumption about me

I spent some time in Helsinge commune about 25 years ago, the reason that Denmark could be the happiest place on earth, is that the people are probably some of the nicest I have met on my travels

yup thats true, but the world would be a better place if they were allowed to put forward a case for the sentancer to take into consideration

Jdonn, you are trying to twist what I say, I do think in my example that the bastard deserved to die You said "So if it was a 20 year old he battered then he wouldn't deserve to die? And if it was only 2 days of abuse?" I said "that is not what I am saying and you well know it" You said "Quite the opposite, it still seems like exactly what you were saying. You said the guy deserves to die because his victim was so young and was abused for so long. That is the same as saying other killers would not deserve to die if they had older victims who hadn't been abused as long, and would also mean we need people to decide what is young enough and how long (and bad) of abuse is enough." You see, I do agree in my example, that the bastard deserves to die, I did not say what you are assuming I said that a greater age or lesser time being abused is basis for not killing someone I find your posts as a personal attack on me and I am not offended as I realise that on the forums, people like yourself can hide behind a screen and attack what you disagree with I answered gwnn's question, I do believe there should e capital punishment, you have a different opinion from me Jdonn, I doubt we are in any way similar, please dont post remarks, like I am trying to hide from the truth, you would if you ever met me find, I really do not hide behide anyone else, I am my own man and I am happy with my own opinions about things, as for my removed post, it was probably only removed as it offended a few people who complained, I can say catorgorically, quite a few posters in here thought it amusing andthat I was just making a point about Al's post which remained please dont judge me by your own low standards double standards

No Phil, I don't find anything repugnant in your post. sounds like you have a good opinion on the subject, I don't find it repugnant either

well that is what I call openminded discussion

no much of an arguement for not killing people jdonn why should someone not have the right ?

That is not what I am saying and you well know it

In england we just had a man batter to death an 1 year old baby after weeks of abuse........ You want to imprison him? get real the bastard deserves to die or more to the point we have a duty to protect and if the only answer you have to protect is to imprison afterwards, then I feel you are missing a fundemental point in life. death penalty is a deterant and maybe a few deaths will prevent more deaths or another view someone like that does not deserve to live, you can argue who has the right to make a judgement that he deserves to die and who has the right to take his life. but I bet the woudl be no shortage of people willing to make the decision or carry out the task. How can you outgrow a desire for vengance if someone has raped and mutilated your baby... Romans 12:19 Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord. shall we leave it all to GOD? BS