TWO4BRIDGE

I agree I agree In fact I can't remember not agreeing with Quantumcat.

Interesting.

Very good question !

Interesting. 4H ostensibly denied a ♦ Ctrl. But with the ♦KQ, North didn't hesitate to ask for key cards. I bet he was surprised to hear partner had the ♦A . I wonder if he would have asked if he were missing the ♦K ? ( but held points elsewhere for his opening... say the ♣K ). He probably would sign-off in game and miss a makable small slam.

E/W missed 6S+1 slam 3CX-3 - 11.2 IMPs instead of + 4.0 for slam [hv=pc=n&w=skt74h6da972caj96&e=saqj653ha9dkqj3c5&d=n&v=e&b=9&a=3cdppp]266|200[/hv]

I too thought about the 3♥-jump, but--in competition--that would be a fit-showing-jump . In fact, if Advancer's hand had been a just a little better, he could have made a 3♣ fit-showing-jump! I thought mini-splinters long ago lost favor and were replaced with fit-showing-jumps in the following instances: 1) as a passed hand or 2) in competition. Splinters still exist--but only as double-jumps. The jump-cue also used to be a mini-splinter ( eg. 3♦ here ) but lost out to the mixed raise w/4 card support.

Has anyone mentioned just bidding 1H ( instead of 2H ) which is forcing... and if you play "Walshish" it would show longer Clubs than Hearts. Then what does Responder bid? ( I'm not suggesting life would be easier but I play the 2H-jump would show 4 Hts and a 6 card Cl suit, GF ). 1C - 1D 1H - ??

If you can show 4+ card raises with Bergen/Jac2NT( or a variation thereof ) / splinters, then 2S = 3 cards. After a series of cue-bids Opener goes RKC since only he knows of no more than the 8 card fit. Upon discovering a missing key card AND the trump Q, the slam odds are less than 50% ( ~ 34% at most ). For example if trumps split 3-2 = 68%, you need to find the Q ... and you don't even know if partner has the 10 for an "either way" finesse. Sign-off in 5S and hope you fulfill the contract.

Interesting idea. So for this hand: South A x A x x A J x x Q 9 x x I'm assuming these initial follow-ups: South 1NT - 2H! 2S! - 3C! ( 5s and 4+ of either minor ) 3D! ( only 2 cards ♠ but at least one 4 card minor; could have a 5 card minor ) - ?? 3H! = ♣ 3S! = ♦ 3NT! = both ( must be 5 0 4 4 ) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I wonder what Responder's actual hand was on this deal ?

Here is a variation of the IanD method that I've posted before for such an auction: South A x A x x A J x x Q 9 x x 1NT - 2H 2S - 3D ( GF, slammish , 5+s/4+d ) ?? ...3H! = cheapest new suit = agree Diam( 4 or 5 cards ); only 2 cards Sp ...3S = agree Sp, 3 cards Sp; no 4 cards Diam ...3NT = agree neither ...4C! = agree BOTH: 3s/4 or 5d ( Sweet ! ) So I would rebid 3H! agreeing Diam, but not necessarily a Ctrl cue .

Max Hardy style requires Opener to rebid 2D as a 1st priority with a 5+ card ♦ suit. You still have the 2-level to agree on a 4-4 Major fit if it exists. Rebidding the 4 card Sp suit first shows only a 4 card ♦ suit ( the rare exception is with 5s/6d ). However, neither partner shows extras up to this point . Hardy considers knowledge of the ♦ suit length important to the auction. North South 1D - 2C! ( GF ) 2D - 2S ( 4 cards ) 3S ( 4 cards ) - 4C ( mixed cue ) 4D - 4NT 5S ( 2 + sQ ) - 5NT 6D ( dK but no cK ) - 6S ( won't venture the grand w/o the cK ) .

thx, Quantumcat for your additional sequences... including the "sign-off caution" for Opener when Responder transfers to his bid major ; and the "self-splinter " for Responder. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - y66 .... I use the same sequences for the 4-4 and 5-5 in the Majors ( in the context of the Wolff Relay ). But I'm a tad worried about your inability to show a 4-5 or 5-4 since you use 3oM! as an om slamtry: 1m - 1M 2NT - 3C! ( force to 3D!) 3D! - 3oM! = slamtry in other-minor ( om ) - - - - - - - - - Using Wolff, 3C always "asks for 4 cards Hts" so 3D ( by Responder ) is always natural, GF ( ... your relay unnecessarily "wastes" a bid .... although I see where you can "get out" at 3D your way ) . With Wolff 3C! will show either a) sign-off, b ) the 4/5 or 5/4, or c) 4 cards M and 4+cards Cl: 1C - 1H 2NT - 3C! 3D!( no 4h ) - ?? 3H = sign-off 3S = 4s/5h, GF 7+hcp, unbalanced 3NT = 4h/4+c; 10-12 hcp 4NT = 4h/4+c; 13+ hcp, slammish whereas: 1C - 1S 2NT - 3C! 3D!( no 4h ) - ?? 3H = 5s/4h, GF 7+hcp, unbalanced 3S = sign-off ( also a sign-off if Opener replied 3H = 4 cards Hts ) 3NT = 4s/4+c; 10-12 hcp 4NT = 4s/4+c, 13+hcp, slammish and: 1C/1D - 1H/1S 2NT - 3D = natural, 4h or 4s w/4+d, GF 7+hcp

Quantumcat.... Here is a hand from Sept, 2009 about what to do over the 2NT rebid: http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/34053-slam-try-after-2nt-rebid/page__p__393388__hl__%2Bslam+%2Btry+%2Bafter+%2B2nt+%2Brebid__fromsearch__1#entry393388 Transfers ( among other methods ) were mentioned but no complete sequence was given. How would you handle this using Transfers? [hv=pc=n&s=skqjhkj7542d5cj98&n=sa532haqdat94ckqt&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1dp1hp2np]266|200[/hv] Edit: 1D open ( not 1C )

South 1C - ( 1S ) - 2D = 5+cards, 10+ hcp forcing 1 Rnd ?? ... 2NT = 12-14... which can be passed ... 3NT = 15-17 w/Sp-stop(s) ... 2S! = only way to force w/strong hand, not necessarily Diam support Soooo after: 2S! - 3D ( I don't think this guarantees 6 cards ) 3S! ( now this should be an Advance cue for Diam as trump ) 3S! - 4H ( Ctrl cue, denying Cl Ctrl ) 4NT ( RKC for Diam ) - 5S ( 2 + dQ ) 6D

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-May-13, 21:01, said: "A definite drawback to Wolff is that a Major suit rebid (3M ) by Responder only shows 5+cards ( GF ) whereas in "NMF"-checkback, 3M = 6+ cards." Wolff ( or Wolff Relay ) incorporates a "sign-off" for Responder ( which I failed to mention earlier ). "Rebidding 3M by Responder AFTER going thru 3C! is a sign-off" . The sign-off feature restricts the meaning of a 3M rebid after going thru 3C! . Wolff Relay: 1m - 1H 2NT - 3C! ( asks for 4 cards ♥, always ) 3D! ( no 4h) - 3H! = sign-off ( something like K Q x x x down and out ) likewise: 1m - 1S 2NT - 3C! 3D or 3H - 3S! = sign-off That is why: 1m - 1S 2NT - 3S = only 5+cards M, but is GF ...and not 6+, GF ( and the direct-3S essentially denies 4 cards ♥ since didn't go thru 3C! ) -- Responder can't rebid 3S ( after going thru 3C! ) to show extra length with a GF, because it is a sign-off --.

I too always wondered how the "NMF" crowd shows a 4-4. I've always assummed Responder doesn't show his ♠ when Opener has denied 3 cards ♥ ( and denied 4 cards ♠ as well ): 1C - 1H 2NT - 3D! 3NT* - pass _______________________________________________________________________________________________ * If Opener had by-passed a 4 card ♠ suit in favor of the 2NT rebid, s/he would have bid 3S instead of 3NT.

Hanoi is playing a form of Wolff where 3C! is always checkback: 1m - 1H 2NT - 2S = 4-4 whereas: 1m - 1H 2NT - 3C! = may have 4s/5h as one of the options. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Edit: Additional Wolff sequences: For the 1S response: 1m - 1S 2NT - ?? 3H = 5/5 3C! = may have the 5s/4h as one of the options So the 5/4 or 4/5 ALWAYS goes through 3C!. In one form of Wolff, 3C! always asks for 4 cards ♥ ( for either of the 1-major initial responses ). With NO 4 cards ♥, Opener replies 3D! but does not deny 3 card ♠ support. Using Wolff also allows the intial 3D Response to be natural ( GF )... always : 1C/1D - 1H/1S 2NT - 3D = natural, GF - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - A definite drawback to Wolff is that a Major suit rebid (3M ) by Responder only shows 5+cards ( GF ) whereas in "NMF"-checkback, 3M = 6+ cards. 1m - 1M 2NT - 3M = 5+M in Wolff but 6+M in NMF-checkback

With a weak 4s/5h, Responder just transfers to ♥ and forgets about Spades. With a weak 4/4 or 5s/4h, Responder bids Stayman. Then after: 1NT - 2C 2D - 2H ?? The "rules" are: Opener bids 2S with equal length ( 3/3 ) or longer ♠ ( 3s/2h ); ... OR passes with 2s/3h On this hand, Opener bids 2S.

Without going into details, I have a method for Opener to show "extras" ( 15+ hcp ) and no 4 cards ♠ with either 2D ( showing 5+♥/4+♦ ) or a direct 2NT bid over 2C!. Thus, from the "math", Responder with his 19 hcp knows slam is imminent ( ... can't be missing both an A and a K ... just one or the other at most ). The question then is whether you have the small slam or grand: 1H - 2C! 2D! - 4D! ( Minorwood ) ?? ..4NT! ( 2 - ♦Q ) >> 6NT ( when missing either A or ♦K, Opener will have enough "stuff" in ♥ or ♣ for 12 tricks ) ..4H! ( have all 3 missing key cards ) >> make a K-ask and Opener, with that ♥A K Q J, will bid 7NT.

Opener has shown his strength ( 18+ ) and shape ( 4s/5+c ) with his 2S! jump-shift. So after Responder's 3C , Opener should just bid 3NT [ showing Diam-stop(s) and no extra strength ]. If Responder has a stronger hand, s/he will make a move.

MP scoring I made the uninspired 6D bid: [hv=pc=n&s=sakq7hdqjt2cak973&n=sj42hakqj9da963c6&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1hp2cp2dp6dppp]266|200|2C! = GF and Club suit[/hv] Partner thought long and hard about "correcting" to 6NT because of his stellar Ht suit.... but in the end passed 6D .

As Aquahombre said in his post #4 : " Having some other way to show one-minor slam interest would be helpful. It doesn't have to be 4-suit xfers; Walsh relays also work just fine in conjunction with 2-suit xfers. " But I see neither are mentioned in the ACBL SAYC booklet. Only the minor sign-offs and invites are stated. Sooo, I guess that only leaves the Stayman sequence .... ugh.

gnasher.... thx for the ACBL link on SAYC, but NOWHERE does it validate the above statement. It does NOT say " does not promise a four-card Major " after: 1NT - 2C 2any - 3m = 5+minor, slammish So, if the auction goes ( the way I might play it ): 1NT - 2C 2H - 3m = 4 cards ♠ /5+m, GF slammish ?? ...3S = 4/4 in the majors, interested in slam ...4S = 4/4 and not interested in slam - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - In other words, anytime Responder bids 3m-after-Stayman( and Opener's reply), he DOES promise a four-card Major.

Does everyone/anyone agree with this ? I've never heard of it . - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I don't know if this is from 2001, but is what I learned shortly thereafter: 1NT - 2C 2M - 3m = 4oM/5+m, GF slammish, ie no fit for M 1NT - 2C 2D - 3m = 4 cards M / 5+m GF slammish

ArtK78: "What you are saying is that responder should have passed 2♦, since no matter what response you got, you didn't want to play any contract higher than 2♦." Exactly. Pass. But if Opps compete in Hts, raise to 3D.