TWO4BRIDGE

I think the 3NT bid has made it impossible to show a 2-suiter. If the 3NT shows a 3 card fit for the Major, then 4-new suit will always be interpretted as a Ctrl Cue bid; whereas: 1M - 2m! ( 2/1 GF ) 3m - 3M always shows a 2-suiter. Also, another negative attribute for the 3NT bid is when M = Hearts... now Opener has no room below 4H to cuebid Spades.

I assume this 3NT range is 13-15 ?? Thus, 3NT! is a Sp raise. If Opener next bids 4C, 4D, or 4H , those would be Ctrl Cue bids for Sp as trump.... Afterwards, 4NT would be RKC for Sp. ( a la 1eyedjack in post # 16 ) . So, the immediate 4NT should be reserved as Quantitative: 1S - 3NT! 4NT = Quant

( -- ) - 1C - ( 1H ) - 1S ( 3H )- 3S - ( p ) - 3NT! [ Serious, and/or needs to hear a Cl Ctrl cue ] ( p ) - 4C - ( p ) - 4NT [ RKC ... ending up in 6S ]

I agree Since Cyber's 2NT! rebid is not forcing for me, enter the GGG ( Gnasher's Gameforce Gadget ): 2♠ jumpshift rebid, maybe artificial, but establishes a gameforce over a 1♥ Response . Again, this is not standard: 1♦ - 1♥ 2♠! - 2NT! ( asks for clarification ) 3♥ ( 3h, 5+d, no 4s ) - 3♠ ( and we are at the same point as Cyberyeti ) etc,etc.

It's still confusing because the various sources contradict each other. Take the 2M rebid ( Hts or Sp ) by Responder after Opener's 2D Reverse: 1C - 1M 2D - 2M With Ingberman, some sources say 2M is non-forcing ... others say it is forcing. With Lebensohl, the few sources I've looked at say 2M is forcing. Mikeh says 2M is forcing ( unlimited ) for both. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The same goes for the "weak bid " ( start of the sign-off ) ...as you mentioned . 1C - 1M 2D - 2oM! or 2NT! Some sources say 2oM! as the weak bid is part of Lebensohl. Others, like mikeh, think the 2oM! weak bid is part of Ingberman. Go figure.

I have a "home grown" system for 2/1 GF Responses to 1H openers to show minimum or extras; w/ or w/o 4 cards Sp: 1H - 2C!/2D! ?? ..2S = 4 cards Sp, natural, reverse strength ..2NT = NO 4 cards Sp, but extras ..2H! = announces a minimum opener; may have 4 cards Sp ........2S! = asks ..............Flannery type replies with 4 cards Sp: .............. 3C! = 4s/5h w/Cl shortness .............. 3D! = 4s/5h w/Diam shortness .............. 3H! = 4s/6h ( extra Ht length); 3S! asks shortness ( Zel improvement ) .............. 3S! = 4s/5h and 2-2 in the minors .............. 2NT! = No 4 cards Sp ( this is the 2nd way for Opener to bid 2NT --showing a minimum open )

One point about the Meck Adjunct. After the 2NT! GF-jump, Meck has the Responder show the limit-raise w/3 cards M with the 3M rebid..... This is opposite from what I had learned about the 1M - 1NTF, 3C! jump-shift method where 3M = weak bid with as few as 2 cards M and 4M = limit raise with 3 cards -- a hand that would have jumped to 4M if Opener had made a 2-level rebid in a lower ranking suit . This is possible because with Meck: 1M - 1NTF, 2NT! - 3C! = any hand w/o 3 cards M support... interesting ! Sooo, for the given hand: 1S - 1NTF 2NT! - 3S! = limit w/3 ...and we are at the same point as Zel's or Mike's auction. ( I like the "inference" of the Ht-singleton in Zel's "serious"/cuebidding auction . It's that "shortness" knowledge needed for the Grand to be bid ) .

Let's see your auction. I don't think it's that easy. ( I don't think the "captain" will be able to count to a sure 13 ) .

7 losers = good hand 8 losers = bad hand Edit: and 2 of top 3 honors = good suit 1 of top 3 honors = bad suit Soo, for the hand in question , it is 3H! = good hand, bad suit

Thx, Zel.... I'll investigate the transfers. But now I'm actually more excited about the Meckstroth Adjunct ( mentioned only yesterday by Scott in post # 10 ). I found this link on it: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:xau6hiiQ070J:www.gravesendbridgeclub.org/CB/systems/TwoOverOneGF/MeckstrothAdjunct.html+Meckstroth+Adjunct&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

Thx, Scott.... especially for the Meck Adjunct ! ! ( BTW, has rec.games.bridge died or dying ? ) .

So true. But I'm afraid I'll open 1♠ and make a "weird" GF 3♣! jump-shift ( may be artificial ) over 1NTF! I believe Mikeh ( from last week ) has a system for this ( using the 3C! rebid ) desribed many years ago in BW called : Jeff's Magic Elixir . Edit: http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/47047-1s-1n%3B-2h-3h/

What I meant by it is that 4C! is not needed ( " not allowed here by the B & I Police " ) to show a splinter ( over the 2H transfer acceptance ) ... so that frees-up the 4C!-jump for RKC-Gerber for Hts .

Responder can find out about keycards and the trump Q BELOW the 5H level by using Gerber ( RKC )-after-Transfer since the B & I Police won't let you splinter .

There are some systems ( over the 1NT opening ) which tend to be a bit complicated for Responder to get more info in a slammish situation ( gnasher has one as does Zel and myself ). But Zel here offers a simpler approach which actually is used by some experts -- namely the 3H-jump by Responder: "... 1NT - 3H as natural with slam interest to start a cue auction. "....

I think Mat's analysis is " spot on " !

With prior agreement: (2M) - ?? 4M! = minors 4NT = Blackwood Why give up Blackwood ?

12) Mention "splinter" in the B & I Forum .

Nabbed again by the B&I Police -- who think all B & I's are " brain-dead " ( special thx to Ron [ Hog ] for this quote ). Edit: Also, special thx to Lurpoa for bringing my "Reputation" into the "green".

Then what is the following for you : 1♥ - 1♠ 2♣ - 2♦! 2any - 3♦ = ?

Maybe inquiry ( Ben ) will post something again from K Martens book as he did for a similar auction back in April: http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/45537-bid-the-slam/page__st__20 The context would be for specific 4th suit auctions where Opener has limited.

If 2D! ( over the 2C rebid ) is an artificial force (e.g. Bourke's Relay ), then 3D! ( a jump over a forcing bid ) would be high enough to splinter.... a mini-splinter . But with 5 cards Hts, I'd stick to the 2D! bid to ask about 3 cards Hts first. Although 2D! is not a GF by itself ( similar to NMF ), but 1 round force, subsequent actions may convert the auction into a GF. For example there are 2 ways for Responder to bid 3H ( in case he had 6 cards like you asked about ) : 1C - 1H 2C - 3H = invitational whereas: 1C - 1H 2C - 2D! 2NT - 3H = GF - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Edit: Now as to which game, if Opener denied 3 cards Ht support, you can always bid Cl afterward: 1C - 1H 2C - 2D! - ( DBL ) 2NT - 3C

Ask mtvesuvius and mgoetze .

Don't you still play Hi-Lo with a doubleton ?

What bothers me about 4D! being a splinter is that you can't splinter in all of the suits. 4H! could be a splinter because 3H ( over 2NT ) should show a 5/5, GF. But 4C! ( over 2NT ) is often times reserved for Gerber ( except for "Gerber haters " ) . And then take the case of the 1H Response: 1C - 1H 2NT - ?? How do you show a Sp splinter ? That said, I think the arguments are compelling enough for the Sp suit to be trump for this Responder holding.