TWO4BRIDGE

I think Helene got it ! Opps' only get 1h, 1d, 1c

Re-read the initial problem -- NO interference. The auction so far is: 1S - 2C 3C - 3H

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/white-knights-catch-french-grandmasters-cheating-by-text-2252472.html

This starts out very similar to the 7D ("misunderstanding kickback" ) thread: 3♥ = either: a "cheapest" cue bid ( after all ♣ was supported ) or a 3NT probe ( showing ♥-stop ). If a cue bid, it denies a Diam-Ctrl; if a Ht-showing 3NT-probe, it denies a Diam-stop.

Yes, a lot of interesting stuff here. One issue, which I failed to address in another recent "kickback" thread -- kenberg's I believe( not this hand )-- is that in a GAME FORCE auction with an agreed minor ( m ) -- do NOT play kickback. Instead, the first partner to bid 4m should be taken as RKC ( Minorwood ). This, among other things, would reduce confusion if the kickback suit is bid at the 4-level. As for this hand, the most serious error was Weinstein's use of RKC with a VOID. Then when he asked for KINGS, you can't fault his partner , Levin, for thinking they had accounted for ALL the key cards.... hence, his subsequent jump to 7D. I agree Weinstein was "pushed" into using RKC since Levin could not stop cuebidding when there was no need to after Weinstein's 3H bid -- which denied 3 card Sp support -- it was either a cue or a probe for 3NT ). Since Levin had NO 2 quick losers in any sidesuit, he could afford RKC at this point ( whether Minorwood or even the agreed kickback ). Some folks just like to cuebid to death !! Speaking of cuebidding, don't you cuebid "up-the line" -- ie the cheapest cuebid ?? Why did Weinstein by-pass a 3S cuebid in favor of a 4C cuebid ?

I like Aquaman's 2C open suggestion, "initially" setting Hts as trump and demanding cuebids: 2C - 2D 3H(jump) - 3S 5NT! - 6D ( or 6H ) = one of the top 3 Ht honors 7S ( hoping that the Sp cue was NOT a VOID ! )

Let me get this straight. If there had been NO interference, is your Minor Suit Stayman forcing ? ( ...or can 3C be passed ? ) . 1NT - 2C 2H - 3C! = MSS, forcing ? If so, would 3C! ( by Responder ) over partner's DBL ( showing Hts), still mean the same in this interference auction ? [ In otherwords is your MSS "system still ON" over 2-level interference ?? ]

Sorry I didn't reply sooner. 5NT was either a mistake -- a brain fart -- replying as if 4NT was used for key card ask ; or, he rejected the reply by using the GSF-ask instead... figuring 6D was cold, but that 7D would be on if partner had the ♦ Ace.

You have ONE of the top 3 AND "something else" -- ♥ K ( as well as the 3 other controls in the minors ). Partner must be void in one of the minors -- I'm not sure which : 5 6 ( 2 0 or 0 2 ) -- other wise he would bid 4NT ( RKC ). If he is ♣ A x or ♦ K x, you are probably cold for 7S.... but how to know ? .....Surely he wouldn't bid 5NT with ♣ Q x ( or worse ), so I'm putting him on ♣ A x and ♦ void. I'd like to bid 7S, but what if he is missing one of the top 3 ♠ honors ? Heck, the grand may still be on a hook ..... sooo, I'll just bid 7S and be done with it !

As stated in the other thread, 4D was RKC for Diam ( ie Minorwood ). As such 5NT is NOT a reply to the first Minorwood call. 4D - 5D! = 5th step = even + void somewhere. This is analogous to regular RKC: 4NT - 5NT = 5th step = even + void somewhere. If he had replied as if NO void: 4D - 5C = 4th step = 2 + dQ , then surely partner would have known there was a missing key card .

In the first one ( Delmonte ), 4D-jump = Minorwood. The reply with 2+void somewhere is 5D! If 5NT asked for Trump honors, doesn't the 6C reply = zero ??

He made that statement for the 1M - 1NTF, 3m ..... auctions

Where's Justin when I need him.... Note his quote below my name ! !

This Responder hand is a minimum, not the worst minimum because of the nice ♣ fillers. The correct rebid with this minimum is 3S = minimum with as little as 2 card ♠ support. With limit raise values and 3 card support, the correct bid is 4S = a hand that would have jumped to 3S over limiting rebid by opener ( say 2C ) ..... in the 2/1 GF context . However, I don't fault the 3D rebid showing stop(s) and needing stop(s) in ♥ for a NT game --- those ♣ more than likely will roll in. But when Opener rebids 3H, it's time to show the 2 card support with 3S.

What was Responder's hand ?

I understand now.... LHO could put up the ♥ Q on the 2nd lead....( as you then said ) . But at least I tried to get 2 entries.

That throws away your 4th trick. I play O/E on the 1st discard, which would be the ♦4 , stating " I like ♣ " , but it would not demand a ♣ switch, unfortunately .

Is there something wrong with my math ? If the ♥ 4 was 4th best, then 11-4 = 7 = cards higher than 4 in the other 3 hands: dummy, RHO and Declarer. As Declarer, I can see all 7 after RHO plays the ♥ 8. Ergo, LHO has to have the ♥ Q .

The bidding: 1NT-2NT-3NT ( opps silent ) The lead: ♥ 4 .... it went 4 7 8 ACE ! Dummy's ♥'s K 10 7 Declarer's ♥'S A J 9 I took the Ace because I wanted ( needed ) an extra entry to dummy. From Rule-of-Eleven ( if the lead was 4th best ) , LHO had to have the ♥ Q . On the next ♥ lead I hooked the w/10 and RHO took w/Q ! ! ! Later I was told the Opening LEAD was from "2nd highest in a weak suit". LHO hand was: J 6 4 3 2 A Q J 3 Q 9 7 6 1) Was that LHO's best lead ? ( obviously it was here, because I was -1 in a cold contract ) . 2) Would you also lead 4th best at times when also playing "2nd highest from crap" ?

" Loose lips sink ships "

They have an alternate way to get to 3NT = to play.

I didn't show what you typed. I showed ( from one of the references I found ): 1NT - 2S! ( transfer to Cl; long Cl, but could have the weak 5/5 minor hand ) 2NT! ( no acceptance for Cl ) - 3D! ( the weak 5/5 minor hand assuming a better fit in Diam )

I like Ken's idea... If dummy wins the 1st trick, 3rd hand shows ATTITUDE. Then 3rd hand uses Smith to show COUNT. Partner ( opening leader ) will still use Smith to indicate "likes or dislikes" his opening suit. ( Admittedly though, I have not thought about it much ) .

I've been told that it is important to ALWAYS show SHORTNESS. You can do this at the expense of the penalty DBL ( which some may not like ). But you do gain the ability to show stiff or void as well as a 2nd 5-card suit. Let's take one example: 1S - ( p ) - 2NT! - ( 3D ) ?? .. DBL! = Diam stiff ( stole-my-bid ) .. 4D! = Diam void .. 3H! = Ht stiff or void ( 3S! = asks >> 3NT!, next step = stiff Ht; 4C!, 2nd step = Ht void ) ..pass! ( shortness in lower rank suit ) = Cl stiff or void ( DBL! = asks >> 3H! = stiff Cl; 3S! = Cl void ) .. all other bids remain the same as if no interference: 3S, 3NT, 4S, 4C/4H = 2nd 5-card suits ( ergo shortness somewhere else )

I googled a few references. 1) Semantics: The "acceptance" whether the "gap" bid or 3m is sometimes referred to as a "super accept" = at least Honor-3rd or small-4th.... some said w/max... others had no max requirement. 2) There is no known advange of favoring the gap bid or 3m to show acceptance.... so need prior agreement. 3) After "acceptance", then a 3H! or 3S! bid by Responder shows shortness ( stiff or void ). 3D is not a shortness bid ( see next ). 4) The sequence: 1NT - 2S!( transfer to ♣ ) - 3C!( acceptance ) - 3D! ( can be used for the NO shortness hand ). But 1NT - 2S! - 2NT! ( no acceptance ) - 3D! = for PASS, because Responder had a weak 5/5 in the minors ! ! 5) NO reference showed cuebids at the 3-level. 6) With NO shortness: ....... Bridgeguys said to have Responder go GERBER ( or Minorwood ) over an acceptance ( They do not like 4NT as RKC when a minor is trumps ) . ....... Philip Alder said to "agree the minor" with a 4-level bid ( 4m ) and then use 4NT = RKC over a 4-level cuebid by Opener. 7) 1NT - 2S!/2NT! any - 4NT = Quant.