ovncylmz

Play the full game vs. Dadim.. That game will count.. We will make the decision about the AWM game shortly..

ovncylmz-frank0:+31 http://webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/tview.php?t=ARDCHALLENGE:fa0fc759.9e18.11e6.8e99.0cc47a39aeb4-1477774079&u=ovncylmz

SMERRIMAN - DADIM - AWM Please tell us the state in your games so we can figure out what happens.. Smerriman - How many boards did you play? Awm - Did you see the set yet? Dadim - Did you finish the set? (I heard he started)

They will be counted.. Please play normal..

SAFE TO START.. JUST READ THE FIRST POST -- IMPS 16BOARDS BEST HAND.. GOODLUCK..

PLEASE DO NOT START THE TOURNAMENT.. WE WILL HAVE A FEW MORE ANNOUNCEMENTS WHICH WILL BE MADE WITHIN A FEW HOURS! PLEASE FOLLOW THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD..

NEW EvENT REGISTRATION http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/75339-bbf-challenge-event-4/page__p__901321__fromsearch__1#entry901321

New event: http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/75339-bbf-challenge-event-4/page__p__901321__fromsearch__1#entry901321

can u post the link to "event 4 discussion" and "event 3" pages?

i am in

It is 9-9 but smerriman says it does not matter so technically it is 9.5-8.5 for IMP non best-hand. I still feel that switching IMP best-hand and non best-hand sounds like best idea. If BBO upgrades its robot, then we can fully continue with IMP non best-hand.. I am happy to see that people liked the system with groups:)

Consolation: 1) Antonylee 2) Frank0 Check dropbox for more details! Thanks all!

I think we should switch between IMP best hand and non-best hand.. Best hand tactics are different and it is not real bridge, yes. But at least non-best hand is really crazy since you fool GIB very easily with weak hands.

So final match: nige1-olegru.. Good luck!

Stephen tu - olegru, are you guys planning to play the 4th set?

Consolation Match 5 (the last round): antonylee-cherdano mkgnao-elwood913 frank0-barmar smerriman-m1cha zebutin-gordontd stoppiello-ovncylmz Current Standings - Top 4: 1) Antonylee 74.51 2) Mkgnao 65.19 3) Frank0 63.02 4) Cherdano 59.47 For full results/standings: https://www.dropbox.com/home/BBF%20event3?preview=BBF+event+3.xlsx

Smerriman, I like your idea, however there are several points/problems that I should clarify: 1) The standings and seeding points are based only on the main event: --1st place: 7CP --2nd place: 5CP --3rd/4th places: 3CP --5th/8th places: 2CP --9th/16th places: 1CP Only addition is to give: --Winner of consolation: 1CP That is why this event is called "consolation", it does not rank anybody. For example, I lost in QF - I finish 5/8th. None of the group stage losers will be above me, our Consolation performance is irrelevant. 2) There are some people who lose in R16, QF who are not interested in playing more. I was not very interested for example, but just played it to make the field an even number. It is difficult to force somebody to play until the last day if they don't want, so this idea may not work.

This is the first version of the tournament (but 3rd in total) we tried to put a good structure to make people play a good event competitive (and have a system for masterpoint awards, we call them CP etc for future seeding purposes) and also have fun even if they lose at some point. It worked quite nice so far - I may be biased since I organize but I think it goes well. Thanks to everybody! The main event is the event which started with groups and continued with R16, QF - and now in SF and F stages. This is what competitive people care - think this as the World Championships. There is a side event what I called Consolidation for a while then corrected to Consolation (thanks to barmar!) which is an event for mainly just for fun. Note that this event is not another top-level event such as World Open Pairs or something - it is clearly inferior, some people do not even have a chance to attend it/or have no benefit of attending it. It was just for keeping people who lost busy while waiting for the next event - so (1) it is easy to collect registrations for the next event easily since people will be around (2) this will hopefully keep them competitive in the group stage even they had no chance. I chose to use carryover (1/2 of group VP) for the people who lost in the group stage for reason (2) above. Since we were late and the number of attendants was very low, we had to start little bit late, therefore some of R16 losers also had a chance to start at the beginning (original plan for them to add them after R2 of the Swiss). I then intentionally choose a low carryover for the R16 drop-ins: I placed them into the 4th, 5th, 6th places out of 8 players. Because these guys already played another match and lost (and got 1CP for seeding) and the target group for this tournament was/is "the people who lost in the group stage". In an ideal world, we could have waited and then after R2 of the Swiss added these R16 drop-ins with a fixed adjustment, but of course where to place them is completely arbitrary and this is not something serious, we don't need any detailed math or anything to figure out the best way. I did the same thing for QF drop-ins. Placed them 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th out of 12 players. Please note that I got the biggest damage here as the winner of my group, losing with a low margin etc. But again, the Consolation is a "bridge party" rather than the championship, so I don't care - there is no fair/unfair/rational/irrational, there is just my personal adjustment which I call a good way, you call a bad way - but it is my party so this is how I organized it. So I am open to any discussions for the format of the main event or the consolation event - we even had a post before the tournament for these suggestions and did our best to use most of them in our structure (Thanks those who wrote there and helped us!), however I really do not appreciate (and get annoyed, yes get annoyed by) random comments without any real base (but fully personal opinions) and more random comments without reading what I am writing as the response (or not processing) for the Consolation tournament. So I apologize you folks since I (and some others) make you read some irrelevant discussion here. I also wish the best of luck to our Semi Finalists and Finalists in the Final-Four! Cheers!

Diana - Please read all the discussion (more than 6-7 posts, what he says and what I say "constructively" etc..) and see how much I tried to explain what the goal of this event was and how I did all calculations.. I think completely the opposite - I think that he owes me an apology.

LOL I assigned QF and R16 losers the same score.. And NO, the ones knocked out sooner do not get higher carry-forward, SOME do SOME do not.. I explained the rationale behind this tournament - it is NOT a different tournament & the primary players are the people who lost in the group stage. You may agree or not - you cannot call something I did "not rational or not fair" based on your logic without using anything as a base other than your personal opinion. You really need to read what I was saying and learn how to look at the numbers.. You bring the same thing again and again in different ways showing that (a) you cannot process what I am saying (b) you do not read.. Sorry but this really really annoys me..

1) Consolation event is mainly for people who couldn't qualify for the KO stage to continue playing in an organized form. Plus, the winner may get 1CP (challenge points - which R16 losers also get 1, QF losers get 2, SF losers get 3, 2nd place gets 5, 1st place gets 7 for seeding of next events). 2) Consolation starts with some type of carryover from groups. Why? Because I want people to take their last matches serious in the groups even if they are not doing great if they want to continue in this event. 3) Normally drop-ins from R16 come after 2nd match of the Consolation. Did not happen this time because of logistics issues, but they need some kind of adjustment to have a chance to catch the top, but should not be at the top - because this is clearly not fair to players in the consolation who already got some carryover but also played some matches in the consolation event. Then drop-ins from QF can come after the 4th match. Same thing for them, they need to start from somewhere, but not at the top. And maybe they play 3 more matches - and someone wins at the end of Round 7. So, there will be some carryover/adjustment/carryforward (whatever you call) for sure. The way Antony says is not bad, but it is still against the spirit of this event. Now think about a person who did very well in the group (let's say 80VP) and also won the R16 with really big difference (20-0 in terms of VP scale) and then lost QF very little (9.9-10.1 let's say). Now whatever you do for this person his carryover/adjustment calculated will be extremely high. For our case, if Antony was not doing this great, maximum VPs would be around 40VP.. This imaginary guy starts with 70VP (80/2+20+9.9). One more time, this event is mainly targeting people who got knocked out in the groups:) Final note: Feel free to read what I wrote multiple times and write whatever you want, I won't explain again - sorry.

LOL - how do you add R16 and QF losers into the tournament?

Yes, but "the top half approach" makes sense when there are 100+pairs where a big portion of them are completely irrelevant for the title race. So you basically place the drop-ins and give them a chance to win the event if they do quite well. I also cannot imagine a carry-over system for these guys related to their group phase performance. They are losers of the R16 or QF, the previous group performance became irrelevant. Our case, the number of registrants was only 5. And the top VP was 22.6 where drop-ins get 17.1 (5.5VP difference to the top), which I still find quite reasonable. In the first two matches, antonylee did great reaching 54.9VP and the new drop-ins (including me!!) get around 36VP - almost 20VP difference to the top, maybe not even reachable in 3 matches. Anyways, this is how I tackled with it for this time - if you have a more clever way of doing this, you can propose the format with full details. This is the first time we use both the Groups&KO format with some Consolation to keep everybody in for a long time, and I think it works well so far. We are open to any improvements for the future - however adding a lot of mathematical calculations into it makes it very complicated, so please keep it simple. Final Note: I would be the person who get the highest amount of damage from the current structure - I had the highest VP in the group stage. But the Consolation event is mainly targeting people losing in the group stage, therefore you can think drop-in addition as a way to diversify the field and add some extra fun.

Void

Okay so I have the following question. If things worked as planned and let's say 8 players started Swiss (and played first two matches) while top 16 started playing R16 and following is the standing in Consolation event: A 32 B 31 C 30 D 29 E 28 F 27 G 26 H 25 Now we have players I, J, K, L who lost in R16 and want to join this event. Do you want to see them joining the pack from the top because they were better than these folks in the group stage?