Jlall

I still don't get it, would you say that someone who had a range of 5-10 would be giving misinformation if they said "preemptive" to their weak jump overcall? If not, and if someone who has a 2-13 range also says preemptive, then saying preemptive does not give any information to the person asking. If they are smart they will just ask for clarification, if not they will assume the standard meaning that preemptive = weak jump overcall and not ask for clarification. Seems like it's just better to tell them something about your range.

2C then 2N is very straightforward. You can easily miss a game by opening 1C and having it go all pass. You will not get to show the strength of your hand very easily if you open 1C and reverse into 2H (if your next bid is 3N you could have an ace less). You risk wrongsiding the hand hand by opening 1C and bidding 2H next as opposed to just bididng NT yourself. If it is just a 3N or 4 of a major hand, you will do much better bidding 2C then 2N, giving away minimum information and getting to game as quickly as possible. If it is a 6N hand you will also do better by just showing your points/a balanced hand so that partner knows your range. As said earlier 1C then 2H makes showing your tremendous values murky. And what if partner pleasantly surprises you and bids 1H over 1C? Oops, 4H does not show a hand this good...because you should have opened 2C. And nothing else fits. You could easily miss a slam where 2C 2D 2N 3C 3H 3S (slam try in hearts) would make it easy to get there. Admittedly 1C will work well when you belong in 5C or 6C or the 7 level. Oh well. Some very good and scientific minded players will routinely tell me how bad it is to open 2N with such prime values when I can so easily describe my hand and have a good auction with 1C 2H. Maybe I am biased by all my friends being huge "bid NT whenever it's possible" type players, but this seems like the winning style to me at the table, and it seems like it can be backed up on paper too. You describe a balanced hand with 22-23 points by bidding 2C then 2N, and that is what you have as far as I'm concerned. Standard bidding is designed on 1 level openings being limited, and hands bigger than that limit opening 2C. If you do not do so, you cannot show your hand ever. This can be fine with very strong 2 suiters since it will never go all pass, and because your goal will not be to describe but to control the auction and find out what partner has. You will also frequently face big competition when you have a hand like that. But with a hand like this you cannot control the auction as your hand isn't good enough. This is not that type of hand though.

The difference is the range of the overcall is much wider, and responder is not expected to false preference or courtesy raise to keep the auction open for partner. Partner is also not expected to bid 2N over whatever suit you bid with a max 1N bid. If your bids are NON FORCING or GAME FORCING, that doesn't work well when your range is like 8-17. If partner is false preferencing or forcing to the 2N/3x level, you get too high too often because the openers lower range is so wide that it cannot sustain playing such a high level. Contrast this to an opener which has a minimum of 12(11) and can usually stand 2N with 22 points or 3x with 21 points and a fit. If you have the lower end of your range (as you usually will) just want to scramble out to your best partial at a low level opposite an 8-11 range. You don't want partner bidding 2N with 10-11 just in case you have bid 2 of a suit with 15 or 16 (or 14). You don't want partner routinely going back to 2 of your major instead of letting you play your second suit. In fact if you are bidding 2x with max non GF hands partner will always be expected to false preference with a max himself it seems like. Also, you don't want to be forced to bid 3 of your major on a mediocre six card suit and a max overcall. But what else can you do? Creating a new suit doesn't seem like a good option (partner might pass?) Much easier to have a cuebid available to handle this problem. You even have the added bonus of being 6-3 in the majors and getting to hearts if partner is 1-5. Also, how often are you going to have a hand that is worth a jump shift? If your max is 17 and your min is 8 (some would say 7?), you won't have a GF that often. Contrast this to an opener which can GF with 18-21 and will often make the 3x bids. So it seems like you will be bidding 2x with almost your entire range of hands, be it a 5-4 or 5-5 8 count, or a 5-5 15 count or 5-4 16 count. This range is just unacceptably wide imo just to have the ability to play 2 of the suit that they've opened. It creates so many more viable options to play jumps are 5-5 strong (except 1S then 3H which should be 6-4 if you play michaels), a jump to 3M as a good 6 card suit, and everything else starts with a cuebid to get more info from partner. This way your 2x range is more narrowed by having the cuebid option available and you don't run into so many problems. Of course the GF range will be narrow regardless of how you play a cuebid, but my point is that a GF or NON GF range is not great in this scenario, where you will almost always have a NON GF range and need to split it into NON GF WEAK and NON GF INVITE. That is the point of the cue. As an added bonus you can stop in 2 of your major if you want by being able to cuebid. That alone is worth a lot. FWIW I used to believe that this should be natural even if they opened a natural 1x but I really don't think it's worth it anymore and have had great results with playing this as a cuebid.

Yes this is a perfect hand for a game try opposite a constructive raise. The right minimums make game very good (xxx Ax xxxx KTxx), and partner could even have a less perfect hand that is a maximum (Qxx Jxx Axx KTxx). Partner could also have hands with 4 spades and a doubleton club that will make game very good (xxxx KQx Qxxx xx). Partner could also have hands with HEART values that will counter game try with 3H that make game good or very good (xxx AKJ9 xxxx xx). Etc. Basically there are a lot of sets of hands that are well fitting minimums not to mention maximums and well fitting maximums that make game good.

Great problem that almost all beginner/ints seem to get wrong. Assuming you play the X here as cards or takeout, passing is the clear action. With a doubleton spade and such defensive heart values, you really can't stand a takeout to 4S if you double which is usually what will happen. Most hands with 4 spades (given your heart holding) and all hands with 5 spades are going to bid 4S, and you rate to have turned a plus into a minus, perhaps a big minus if doubled. So the lesson here is that you cannot double even though you must be like 90 % to beat them, and will often beat them 2. That really sucks! But bridge is a game of frequencies, and what conventions you is also a matter of frequencies. It is rare that you will have a penalty double based on trump values when they open 4 of a major. Usually you will have lots of high cards, or some high cards and shortness in their major. You want partner to be free to bid when you have AKxx x Axxx QJxx (it may even be a double game swing). That type of hand is probably 10x as likely as this hand type. So when you have this hand type you pay off, oh well. I should also note that some people play penalty doubles of 4 of a major, and if that is your agreement you should make one here. I will say that I think this is a vastly inferior agreement, and almost all experts have come to the same conclusion.

4H on the third one is too much, I like your choice of 3H. 1S on the first one is normal. I would not overcall 1S vul on the second one but I'm sure many people would.

Yes it is crazy.

cuebid

nope

This was not my example, it was YOUR example lol, of a hand that would splinter and pass a sign off (you did not explicitly say this, but you said that responder must LTC with Axx Kxxxx xx Qxx to cater to this hand). I was saying that this hand is far too good to splinter and pass a sign off imo. Even if opener does have this hand, slam is not that great, and you will probably play at the 5 level after a keycard auction anyways. So I think that last training with Axx Kxxxx xx Qxx is very bad, because even opposite one of your example hands I think partner should move opposite a signoff, and slam is not that great opposite your example hand. Hope that clears up my point. Yes I know it is a much lesser hand, that is why I brought it up. With YOUR hand it is so good that it can drive to the 5 level itself. With MY hand it is a true inbetween hand, a good hand for a splinter but not a 5 level drive. These are the hands that last train will help you with. If partner signs off you can pass. If partner last trains you can move. Glad you understand my point. If you bid last train with a hand as weak as Axx Kxxxx xx Qxx you will get to the 5 level very often when it is not safe. This is the consequence of bidding last train so often. The alternative is to miss some good slams because you sign off over last train when it's wrong because partners range is so wide. Speaking theoretically, of hands not willing to drive past game you wouldn't you agree you'd like to bid last train 50 % of the time, and sign off 50 % of the time? That much is obvious. My point is that you seem to be bidding last train too often, and signing off to infrequently. This will cause you to have too wide of a range for bidding last train, and consequently cause you to bid less accurately. The splinter already covers a wide range. 2H covers a wide range. Last train is a great tool to narrow your range before deciding if you're willing to go past the 4 level or not. I will suggest that either: A) You are overevaluating Axx Kxxxx xx Qxx or B) Your splinters have a much stronger (and narrower) range than mine, so that you can drive to the 5 level with many more hands than I can as responder after the splinter, so that in fact you are not bidding last train too often. Of course I'm sure you think I'm wrong also, hopefully you are able to see where I am coming from.

Guess I don't agree with you, partner has already shown 10+ with 5+ hearts, all of openers proposed hands can drive to the 5 level at least (or even just bid keycard). If you are expecting partner to splinter and sign off with KQx AJxx AKxxx x then you are really overloading the last train. I would consider it normal to splinter with just about any hand with 4 trumps and a stiff club and reasonable prime values like Axx Axxx ATxxx x. So if that hand splinters and signs off as well as the first hand, everything is just too overloaded. Responder can't drive to the 5 level that aggressively (could have my hand), and also can't sign off very much (could have your first hand), so he is stuck bidding last train 90 % of the time which will make it ineffective. Perhaps we have differing opinions based on widely different expectations of the splinter. If my partner bid last train I would CERTAINLY move with KQx AJxx AQJxx x (I mean honestly who wouldn't? It's a full 5 points better than my suggested minimum splinter).

uhhh...3N? AFAIK partner is just trying to get to the right game (GF+) in case I have weak hearts. I don't have weak hearts. I also don't have a particularly good hand even if I knew partner was slammish. I suppose if I had shown hearts already and partner had shown 4144 anyways that might be construed as slammish (since it's not worth giving away the information to find out if partner has four BAD hearts or not with just game going values), but that would be a matter of bidding philosophy, and if that is the case you should have explained it as "slammish" rather than GF+.

Yes so why does this imply a certain range? All 2 level jumps have constructive elements and preemptive elements. Granted if someone said preemptive I would assume that to mean weak, but it doesn't really tell me much about their range. Someone who has a 5-10 range might say preemptive or someone who has a 2-13 range might say preemptive. Just doesn't seem very descriptive.

I would use 2C/2D to make my 1D much less nebulous, and use 2M as a weak 2. If I couldn't do that I would play 2C weak majors, 2D+ weak 2.

well bid

Maybe but there is no chance that partner will lead a trump when the opps have not asked for the queen, but have shown all the keycards plus many kings. Maybe depends on what you think of partner though, I guess some people ALWAYS lead a trump.

I would open at any vul any form of scoring. Yes your Qx is definitely worth a downgrade and you lack defensive strength/aces but: 1) You have 21 in the rule of 20 to begin with. Your Qx cannot be downgraded 2 points as it's better than xx. 2) Very significantly you have the tens of both of your suits. 3) You have most of your values in your 2 suits. Cue awm telling us about how you will get to a no play 3N opposite a 12 count :rolleyes:

In rubber bridge our system is 1m p 3m forcing and 1m p 2m NF. This gives you some problems with limit raise hands but those are way less frequent than forcing raises, and the problem of not having a forcing raise is MUCH bigger.

You know its MP right? -2 makes you very rich. Pushing them out of 3N+1 into 5m = makes you very rich. True you might push them into a slam, but given RHOs initial pass it's unlikely. I am happy to bid 4S. It's not like partner will have 0 tricks, he must have some values on this auction. You know it's MP right? hehe seriously this play gains over banging down AK of clubs when LHO has T9 doubleton, I don't get it. Anyways I will start by banging out diamonds. If LHO has the ace I will try to figure out what to do with the black suits (likely a spade to the ten then figure out what to do in clubs). If RHO has the DA and hearts are 4-4 I am can try to figure out what to do. If RHO has the DA and LHO has 5 hearts to the AQ I will often have saved myself from going down an extra trick anyways had I misguessed a queen at some point. This seems way better to me than hooking clubs and trying to guess spades. Board 3 is a wtp 2D bid. I don't understand 2S, why go past the 2 level opposite a passed hand? 2S should show 4 trumps anyways since we have 2D available. Don't bid 2C, that's natural.

Down 4 was unlucky and certainly 1 or 2 more down than what you'll normally be. Any reason you are assuming he is NV other than that it is absolutely insane to bid vul (I guess some people play weak NT only NV also)? Bidding is awful, you have a totally defensive hand with THREE hearts (worst number ever). They are more likely than not to be in a 7 card fit. Even if they aren't, if you have 8 clubs and they have 8 hearts it will often be right to pass. Sure if you have 9 clubs and they have 8 hearts it is right to bid, but that gives partner x2x4 and he is likely to reopen with a double with that shape anyways. And when hes 4243 he might reopen with a double anyways. And when he has 5 spades he might reopen with 2S which will be better than 3C.

I think that's silly. A jump overcall is always preemptive. Whatever the implicit agreement is, disclose it. "Non-constructive" may be appropriate. Yeah I NEVER use the word preemptive as I feel all jumps are preemptive even if they are intermediate or whatever. To each his own I guess, it's probably just semantics.

There is no danger partner has T9xx since he would have played the ST. Ergo I cash a spade, either partner had encouraged and we cash our spades or partner will give me a suit preference signal and I'll know which minor suit to play. I guess there is some risk to this... if partner has QT9 x QTxxx Kxxx and declarer xxx AKQxxx Ax Qx I have to shift to a club to avoid partner getting squeezed but thats pretty random and declarer has to guess it anyways. Partner could just as easily have the DA and no club honor and play is a disaster.

If you have no forcing raise in the minor available then you will always have problems when you have a forcing raise hand type.

I would just overcall 3C. We might miss hearts but I can't handle partner bidding diamonds as my hand is not that strong.

Too pessimistic Ken. Even Axx KTxxx xx Qxx is a good slam (as long as you play it well), and not even kenrexford himself would last train over this. QJx KQxxx xx Qxx also will not last train though it is tricky to play (and much better with the HT but in all likelihood if you ruff the club lead and play the SK from dummy they will win it).