Jlall

That's because you're a [deleted] who thinks he knows all about bridge, and likes to make exaggerated posts where your head is in the sand because you think it is cool and makes you look better than you are. I can't decide if you really don't understand the logic of making a preemptive bid or not. Either way you seem quite dense. Jumping the bidding a level is preemptive. I guess the question is what makes you want to preempt with such a hand? Because it will be harder for the opponents to bid accurately! Why are people assuming we cannot bid game after we make a preemptive jump overcall? If partner has some spades and some shape he can try for game, or simply jump to game (which is a standard thing to do with 4 spades and a stiff). Of course whenever we are maximum for our bid we might miss game, obviously people who bid 2S think that the added preemption will cause them enough problems to compensate for the relatively rare times that we have a game and partner's hand is not worth trying for it. Partner has passed over 1C. If he has length in both majors and an opening hand he likely would have found some bid. Sure he can be 3325 with 13 not prime. Sure if the hands fit well we will have a game, and he will pass. Is it even clear we get to game after overcalling 1S? I am not cooperating with a cuebid anyways. Anyways, assuming we always bid game correctly after bidding 1S we will lose a huge SIX imps when this happens. If we cause any problems with their auction so that they get too high or too low, we will regain those 6 imps (ok maybe just 5). If partner had most shapes that did not include a doubleton diamond, he would have doubled 1C (unless it has a doubleton spade, then I'm not that worried about missing game). We still have no shortness opposite no shortness and 23 HCP, it's not like game has to be cold. Meckstroth Xed 1C in the bermuda bowl with 3334, no aces, and KTxx of clubs. I think gnashers point about the debasing of the takeout double is a good one because it eliminates most opening bids from partner given we know that he has some heart length. It is a similar situation to partner being a passed hand, and RHO opening 1x, except we know LHO won't have 5 spades behind us so it is safer to bid 2S this time. The question is not "why can't we have game?" it's A) How likely are we to have game after the auction starts this way B ) What subset of these hands do we get to game with after overcalling 1S and miss game after overcalling 2S? C) What do we lose on those occasions? D) Do we gain enough from giving them headaches to compensate for this? Given that we lose relatively little, and lose it on a very infrequent basis, I would say that D is definitely "yes." A not so unlikely scenario is that if we had bid 1S LHO could make a support double, and RHO could compete to 3D. However if we bid 2S everyone passes with both making. That alone almost makes up for 1 instance of missing a NV game. Or RHO balances with a X, and LHO bids something. RHO has an 11 count, does he move for game or not? Either way he may get to game going down or miss game when he would have gotten to show his values easily if I had just bid 1S. One instance of this could make up for us missing a NV game. In similar vein, what if RHO had a hand that would normally invite in clubs or diamonds? Now he has to bid 3m which is just competitive and not invitational at all, or he has to do something like X and figure it out, never really getting to show his hand. That is a victory when they go wrong which will happen sometimes, rather than having the ability to jump etc. Or we bid 1S and LHO bids 1N and it's passed back to us. Do we bid or pass? If we pass maybe they make when 2S would have made. If we bid maybe we get doubled when it would have gone all pass if we had bid 2S to begin with it would go all pass. Down 2 and a small swing against. In similar vein what if LHO and partner pass, and RHO bids 2 of a minor. Are you bidding 2S or not? If you do LHO might be happy to double you. If not you might defend 2m making when you make 2S, or when you would have pushed them to 3m by starting with 2S (RHO having a 3m balance). Or, once again 2S might buy it when RHO has a pass, but since you let him balance with 2m LHO can compete to 3m. Or if we bid 1S LHO bids 2C, and RHO can compete to 3C. If we bid 2S LHO has to pass and we buy it. Or if we bid 2S LHO stretches to bid 3C. RHO bids game and goes down. Or LHO bids 3C with full values, RHO has a marginal hand that would bid game after a JUMP to 3C, but since it's a little murkier in competition he goes low and they miss game. How about if LHO is raising diamonds? If we bid 1S we allow him to bid 2D or 3D. If we bid 2S he can only bid 3D, and will always raise with 4 diamonds meaning if he has a hand worth a 3D jump he will often stretch and bid 3S or something. This is a gain, they might well get too high now. It's awesome to have you back Jdonn, please don't turn into the new somebody-we-know-who-knows-it-all-and-hasnt-gotten-any-better-in-the-last-5-years-despite-being-way-more-talented-than-you.

so after P P X P are you ready to pass? Yes because partner wanted to double TWO diamonds and is stil doubling them into game after hearing a raise! He expects me to have a bad hand with a diamond void!

4N if it isn't keycard, 5D if it is.

Prefer 3C if partners 3H bid over that would be a punt, prefer 2N if partners 3H bid over 3C would be 5-5 majors. Pass now.

PLEASE DO NOT DOUBLE IT IS VERY BAD!

I'm happy to bid 2S when the auction starts this way, we're so unlikely to go for a number when neither of them has 5 spades. Still possible I guess, but our hand is decent enough to offset 6322.

X then 5D I guess

X and 3D is forcing imo.

I respectfully do not understand how 10 HCP could be considered too few to advance with 1N in this auction.

pass for lack of anything better to do.

QJ doubleton is a very very bad holding. If you are ever going to subtract points that is the best holding to do it for. Qxx is also not great when you have this many points, you prefer to have a supporting honor with it (even the ten makes a big difference). Pretty much the only good feature about your hand is the ST. Obviously AKJT is better than AKJx. So as jdonn said, it's closer to a downgrade than an upgrade. As far as your second question, rebid 2N rather than showing your major with this type of hand. If partner has 4 spades you can still get to spades. If you do not play a walsh style it is possible you will lose your spade fit when partner has a dead minimum with 4 spades and passes 2N. This is a very rare occurance though and it's best to just describe the nature of your hand. Bidding 1S is NF, and bidding 2S would show a different hand type (4S, 5+C).

Yeah not like you could ever realistically bid a slam, or get to hearts opposite no spade stopper, if you start with a double! Also, not like you can ever have an auction where you find out if partner has a spade stopper if you start with a double! Sorry for sarcasm but it is horrible to bid 3S with that hand, I won't even add imo...

Yeah X and 3D. Richard, I think if you double and partner bids 3C showing values, a 3D bid doesn't show 18+ or whatever like usual. There are many 2452 15 counts or whatever that I would X planning to bid 3C over leb, but bidding 3D over 3C. It's definitely an overbid over a 2N leb bid from partner though.

Sure x AKx AKQJxxx Ax I wouldn't overcall 3S to begin with with this hand.

Yeah you should bid game at least over X and 3C, since it shows a hand too strong to overcall 2C. Really you are worth a slam try, but your approach was pretty sensible since you knew something was wrong adding up all the points. There is a large faction that will tell you to always trust your partner in situations like this etc etc, but if you were trying to win rather than trying to educate your partner then safety playing when you "know" he might have messed up is reasonable. This is very standard in the defense, but some people feel the bidding is different for some reason.

I also don't play weak jump overcalls over a Precision 2♣, but I'm not sure that it's best. If it's correct to play (1♥) [Precision] 3♦ as preemptive, surely it's right to play (2♣) [Precision] 3♦ as preemptive too? In the 2♣ auction there is more doubt about major-suit fits, so the benefits of preempting should be greater. I agree with this, I also don't play WJO after 1H ? if vul. It seems weird to play differently over 1H and a precision 2C though.

Maybe it's just me but I never thought that a sorted hand constituted much UI if any (except when you have a bal 9-11 and know it was a passout deal). I don't know how to infer anything from a sorted hand. Does it mean a trick 1 claim or they were looking at it after, and if they were looking at it after how can I deduce why etc etc. It all seems so vague that you can even gain some advantage from this knowledge and just a waste of time to call the director and go through all that. I would feel fine if the system was just you said nothing about it and don't try to infer anything. I wonder how accurate people are at inferring why the hand was sorted in non passout hands, I would bet it was not very much at all even if they were trying.

Why?

I think I would have bid 1N but I like passing better the more I think about it. Our hand is going to do better on defense, and we do not have much potential for making a game. A double would be penalty and usually contains 4 spades, though with a strong hand and 3 spades if you think you have them you can double with that.

This is not a life auction anymore: LHO will pass. Therefore you are balancing when you are bidding. You have the perfect distribution for a balancing double. Partner won't. Rik yep

For me - and I believe in standard neg doubles - Dbl then 2D shows a weaker hand than the one shown. I double and then pass, misfit. How can double followed by 2♦ be weaker than double followed by pass? What is opener supposed to bid with 2=3=3=5 and no spade honor? Rainer Herrmann 1N obv

For me - and I believe in standard neg doubles - Dbl then 2D shows a weaker hand than the one shown. I double and then pass, misfit. You're too strong to bid 2D ergo you pass?

Yes I think it can definitely be that hand and is not a forward going bid at all. I'm simply betting on 2D being a better partial than 2C.

X and 2D.

Anything other than 1N the first time around is terrible. I would bid 3D now.