Jlall

2D doesn't SHOW 5 cards in diamonds, but surely it is some reasonable amount of the time (25%? I dunno, maybe less frequent for you than me because you bid 3D more often?). If partner has 5 diamonds we need much less to make game. xxx xx Axxxx Txx is quite a reasonable game (much better than 50 % as we make on a spade lead even if the club hook is off assuming 2-1 diamonds). Ok that hand is pretty specific, but it is a 4 count. Anyways I don't understand your point, there are some hands where partner has a maximum where game is extremely good. There are some hands where partner has a minimum where game is extremely good. There are also a lot of hands where we're going to be on some kind of finesse. That's a good game as far as I know. Doesn't this mean we should make a game try? Partner will be able to evaluate that 5 trumps is better than 4, and that the CK is good, and that spade wastage is bad. We are still not above 3D yet (though no doubt the opps are strong favorites to bid at least 3S). I guess put another way, if I bid 3C and partner bids 5D I like my chances a lot, and if I go down maybe it's a good save anyways. If I bid 3C and partner doubles spades I like my chances a lot. If I bid 3C and partner passes spades I am not tempted to bid again. I don't think it's like we're going to get majorly overboard because I bid 3C. Also I don't think an 8-9 count with 4 diamonds is a max, I would expect partner to bid 2D with many soft 10 counts that had 4 diamonds and a balanced shape, and also 8 with 5 diamonds or many 9s with 5 diamonds.

Ive started playing 1H 2S invitational and really like it fwiw. On the other hand I think that playing 1M 2N as natural and forcing is completely awful since starting with 2C is way better (opener gets 3 bids in below 3N always) and more logical. I mean you lose in that 2C no longer shows a 5 card suit, whatever.

3H on all also.

I would bid 4S and love it, no surprises there I'm sure.

Wow! I thought the choice was between pass (poorly placed SK :)) and 3H. I thought 3H was really normal and pass sucked, guess as evidenced by the cuebidders ;) I just don't think this hand is worth a cuebid. Partner will bid game over 3H if it's right. To me a cuebid is roughly a limit raise value, so this hand with 3 trumps and a poorly placed king and 8 points and... is just not a LR to me sry.

3C because 5D is easily possible and a double game swing is also possible.

Heh when I see the 8 I still think AJ98 immediately even though top of weakness is much more likely, guess it's because I started with 4th best and low from xxx/xxxx.

I'd X w/w at MP. Either X or pass though don't bid 2H!!!

I still think they can't both be true. If you are spinning and I'm hitting with power we can't both be using the best strategy for us. That's like saying if I switch to being a spin player and you remain as a spin player we will both do worse than before, but of course that's impossible since if one of us does worse then the other does better. Normally I would apologize for a hijack, but in a discussion about Fox News I feel no guilt. If you spin as an opening shot, and spin as a countershot and I do the same then whoever is better wins. However, if you are choosing to spin as an opening shot and spin as a countershot, and I am spinning as an opening shot and using power as a countershot (since you are spinning as an opener), I am using a better strategy than you and will have an edge in that area. If you switch to spinning in response to my spin, and opening with power, I can switch to a spin countershot and again I have an edge in that area. So all you are doing by spinning as a countershot to my spin is giving me an edge because it's a worse strategy. I am still adjusting to your opening shots whatever you do. In addition if I spin and then you spin as a countershot I am now going to switch to power as a countercountershot. Again I have the edge. If we are both playing optimally then I will open with either power or spin, and you reply the opposite and i reply the opposite etc etc and neither of us has an edge and the better overall player will win. If one deviates from this they are giving the other player an edge. edit: and obviously the only time it would be right to deviate from this strateg and give them an edge is if you are MUCH better at either power or spin, or if they are much weaker at one. In the first case their real edge is actually being more versatile than you manifesting like this, in the second case you are exploiting their weakness giving yourself an edge. But this shows that if everything is equal it can easily be optimal to return power with spin and spin with power.

Why can't it just be something simple like this. One player hits first. They must choose to hit either power or spin. In reply, the best reply to power is spin. The best reply to spin is power. Then the cycle begins since they are the best reply to each other. Replying to spin with spin puts you at a disadvantage since the first spin shot has the advantage in that match. Likewise replying to power with power puts you at a disadvantage since the first power shot has the advantage. This is not contradictory at all or even tricky.

jdonn are you being serious?!

Yeah FWIW if you are not comfortable bidding 2S on this auction you should not be opening this hand. This hand was a marginal opener at best when you started life, but now you have a 4-4 spade fit and 3 small in their suit (aka no wastage). Controls become more valuable in a suit contract, so AK A is looking really good now. This hand is totally fine, and partner passing out 2H would be a complete disaster since it's likely both 2S and 2H will make.

2S, wtp?

What routes are you each taking with the two handtypes? 1N 2D 2H 2S= invite with hearts or wants to play 3N opp 2 and 4H opp 3 or 5-5 majors. Over that: 2N=min with 2 hearts 3C=max with 2 hearts 3D=max with 3 hearts 3H=min with 3 hearts So if you had a choice of games you can bid 3N or 4M appropriately. You leak the information about whether partner is minimum or maximum.

I vote for 4D at w/w. I kinda admire 5D because there is a big chance RHO has a 1 suiter in spades and has to bid 5S, but it's possible he's just strong balanced and we go for 800 or even 1100 etc.

Yeah a lot of hands I'm thinking of spades is better. For instance take a hand like AKxxx KQxxx Tx x Where we have a clear 2 pitches. We'd rather be in spades than hearts. If hearts are 4-1 and spades 3-2 we can always just pitch 2 hearts and be fine. If spades are 4-1 and hearts 3-2 if we get 2 spade pitches in then we have gained a trick, but to do so we'll have to play KQ of hearts, then the ten of diamonds. They duck and we play another diamond. It's possible now with 5-2 diamonds they play another diamond and ruff it. This is one problem that arises when our entry is Axx of trumps in dummy. Change the hand now to AKxxx KQxxx xx x Now if hearts are 4-1 and spades are 3-2 its ok because we can play AK of spades and just ruff a heart. But if spades are 4-1 and hearts 3-2 and we play in hearts it's not even clear we're going to get 2 pitches in, we need the DA onside. If we get 1 pitch it doesn't help. Etc. This is another symptom of the Axx trump problem since we can't really ruff spades in dummy when thats the position. So it's not even clear to me if partner was always 5-5 we should be in hearts rather than spades.

We also might get 3 pitches on a good day. One problem with this is assuming a club lead, our only entry to the diamonds will be the ace of hearts. This might cause some problems. On the other hand if we need 2 heart pitches because hearts are 4-1, we won't lose our entry if we're playing in spades. More generally we always prefer our entry to be in a side suit rather than in trumps, especially when we have short trumps in dumy.

Heh good catch I am repeating myself :)

I think he meant our combined holdings in spades are likely to be weaker than our combined holding in hearts based on our relative strengths in those suits. Obviously partner is slightly more likely to have better spades than hearts because we have the ace of hearts.

J98x is somewhat debatable, but I believe the expert community currently agrees with leading the x. I am a big proponent of the x also.

I think this is pretty legit except that partner might be 6-5. I always bid 4S in these situations but always think about passing. Basically I'm not sure, but I think 4S is right but I admire your pass :)

So if gib is going to pass our invite lets say 95 % of the time then the obvious reason to stay one level lower is: Ie they can hold it to 1 so 2N is going down and: ie had they bid 3D they would go down combined with: seems like you answered your own question. Basically I think the chance that 3D/2N goes down is more significant than the small chance we miss game even given that if we invite and partner accepts then game will probably be good, it's just such an unlikely occurance.

No but I totally understand why you did, and I would hate passing. If I had a bid to say "I am 5-4 in the majors" and let partner bid at the 3 level I would make it. I think your question "what should it be" is not a seperate question from "do you agree with taking action?" There are frequently hands where we "know" it's right to bid, but we don't have that much chance of landing in the right contract whatever we bid, so pass becomes the best call. For instance here, we probably belong in 3H or 3S or 4H or 4S. But if we bid 3S we are going to miss hearts a large majority of the time. Getting to hearts was most of our reason for wanting to bid though... Alternatively if we double we may hear *gasp* 5C, or at least 4C. Not really what we had in mind. Some of this also depends on the opps. If they were to promise me that they had 9 diamonds, I would double, just because there's such a huge chance of a fit, and partner will have a 4 card major or 7 clubs unless he's 3316. We may land in 5C X when he has 7 clubs, but he will have a 4 card major a huge majority of the time that it's probably worth the risk. However, if the opponents can have 8 diamonds, doubling is very scary because we get to 4C opposite say 3325 and stuff like that. People do stuff like open 2D with 5, and raise with a doubleton, when NV quite often so assuming they have 9 diamonds always is a mistake. Thus I would pass. One more point, the bidding is not over. On the actual hand partner would balance with 3H, and sometimes partner will balance with double. Not all that likely, but here it would have gone p p 3H p 4H and I'm sure your partner would play it better than the other table!

heh, I thought it was KQJ KQJ Q. Well, yet another point for not raising then, it's not like we're trying to encourage light game tries.

We wasted more time reading your post. Actually I totally agree with him that there should be a GIB/BEST HAND/ROBOT RACE etc forum. Best hand tourneys are not really related to bridge as played by most people. On the other hand such a forum does not exist, so for now he should just not read threads related to best hand tourneys if he hates that game so much, and accept that there's not really anywhere else to post about them, and they're related enough to bridge and BBO that it is not off topic to have threads about the problems that come up there. JDONN FOR MOD OF GIB FORUM!