PhantomSac

I think many would pass when partners a PH, a pretty large reason to X with this hand type is so you don't get shut out when you both have this hand type and it's your hand for 3N, that isn't really possible when partner is a passed hand. On top of that we are red so getting involved in competing on a partscore hand is less attractive when it's 100 a trick. And if it does goes XX on your left you are really unhappy to be r/w. Not saying I'd pass but I might, I'd def strongly consider it. If partner were unpassed or we were white I would X without thinking though.

4N, really?

And to answer your other question more directly, yes it's perfectly fine to hit the breaks if you have shown slam interest and your partner then indicates a void in your ace. It is almost never mandatory to cooperate if your hand gets worse and worse, especially when you have already cooperated/shown interest. I just think your hand is good enough to justify 5D anyways. I do seem to get burned when I cooperate twice with 0 points in partners suits though!

Well for starters I don't think 4C shows a slam try, it says I have clubs please evaluate your hand if they bid 4S. For instance --- AKxxx xxx KQxxx is a perfectly fine 4C bid. In light of that 4D says "I have a good hand for slam if you were making a slam try." Responders only options were 4D and 4H since partner has not made a slam try. Over that 4S confirms a slam try and shows a spade control/almost always a void. I think our hand is too good to just bid 5H, our SA is bad but it might be working (if partner has 3 low diamonds). Our doubleton club is also an asset. True we have already shown a slam positive hand and our SA looks suspect but I think we are worth another move. I would bid 5D showing a diamond control and respect a signoff.

I think passing is arguably better than inviting

OP said specifically that with equal length partner always bids hearts.

I mean yeah I'm sure you'd be really happy if he ruffed with KJx of hearts since that's the only way to let you make. edit: assuming you stripped clubs first which you did not say but implied heh.

Pass is really terrible man you only have KQxxx and you have 3 hearts. But bidding 2D is better than bidding 2H imo fwiw, you would much rather play a 5-2 spade fit than a 4-3 heart fit. The downside is perhaps allowing LHO to double diamonds and RHO to compete when we could have bought it in 2H white. If you really have a strong read that RHO has passed with a strong hand you can pass regardless of your club holding. I did this recently and my partner was 6-6 so that wasn't a huge success :P Be careful about that, if you are not sure then just do the normal thing imo.

Agreed, pure suit combos are always different at the table. However in this case if we are playing perfectly we might realize that we CAN afford the ten from KTx (blows overtrick but not contract opp stiff J). That means partner must ALWAYS win the Q from KQ tight (we are marked with not QTx so wininng the K is a big error). Instead of playing T 50 % from QTx and T 50 % from KTx and winning each honor 50 % with KQ tight, we can adopt a strategy where we win the Q 100 % from KQ, play the T 100 % from KTx and 0 % from QTx, and play the ten 50 % of the time from Tx. This would make running the 8 percentage again. When it goes low low, KQ doubleton is discounted by half since Tx would play the ten half the time. HTx is also discounted by half since KTx would always play the ten. This means that running the 8 then low to jack is percentage, picking up KQTx and losing to half the Tx/KQ combos. Meanwhile if it goes low ten, that is KTx and half of Tx and all of KQT. So covering with the jack and then hooking again loses to half the Tx/KQ and picks up KQT so that is percentage. So even with this wrinkle of QTx cannot play the ten since it doesn't know the suit, we can reach an optimal strategy vs the actual suit combo, it requires both defenders to be on board though.

I dunno man would you do that with a stiff diamond? Your partner is not going to fail to play a diamond if they get in with a trump. Seems like you are just trying to sell me a bridge or something. How about just letting nature take it's course? If you just cash 2 hearts and play a diamond most declarers are going to play a spade to the ace (or if having 5 spades is possible, they are going to run the spade regardless with AJ9xx). Doing things like giving a ruff/sluff or playing a fatuous HA HK is just going to make declarer think about not playing a spade to the ace. Maybe they will read something into it or maybe they won't but I wouldn't rock the boat and the poker player in me thinks your range is unbalanced for playing HA HK because I really doubt you'd do that with a stiff diamond on a hand where your partner is playing a diamond back 100 % of the time if they get in.

I think playing a diamond is better than playing a third heart but depends on the level of declarer. Most good/experienced declarers will assume trumps are breaking badly if the defender gives you a ruff sluff in this spot and I don't think anyone will ruff in dummy with no side losers. If you shift to a diamond, they might worry about a stiff diamond and/or will just play a spade to the ace as most of this thread did. Just my opinion but if someone played a third heart I would def cater to 4-0 trumps. I guess it would be a great play with Tx of spades!

Abstain? Just play for the heart finesse and not terrible round suit breaks

In general I don't like inviting on hands with voids/stiffs that I cannot show, my partner cannot really evaluate his hand very well (club wastage and a max might make game go down, lack of club wastage and a min and it might make), so why ask him to?

I agree with playing the ace obv. For one thing they can't play the ten from QTx since you might have KJ9xxx. However if they play the ten I think the jack is right, most people probably have KQT or HT in which case the only cost of finessing is giving up a diamond ruff when they have HT and I think KQT is more likely.

And if north had played the ten? This is a classic suit combo with a slight twist (diamond ruff possible). Also, I think the premise of the points being split because of no bidding is flawed, if north had KQx of spades he would not bid after 1S p 2C most likely. He also would not bid with KQTx of spades.

West might have 4 diamonds with 97xx though right? (we are given no info on their leads but the 7 is the normal one in my book). I think cashing the DQ then running the HJ (and if covered running diamonds) is better to get more of a count, it only loses compared to your line when LHO has 5 small hearts which I think is unlikely.

In that case I think you were owed a small hesi 3S, a shrug 4S (to indicate a good hand but no H control) and a tank 5h (to indicate that it's not a heart control). A tank 5S is still an underbid, north has a massive hand. However then the opps might call the director. I think it should be a small hesi 3S (esp if partner is usually fast, they can't rule its a hesi since they don't play vs you much but you know), a quick 4S (reverse weasel, slow 4S is an attempt to bar you, fast 4S shows a problem with no H control), and a quick 5H (same thing, reverse weasel). You can really give it a quick 5C, that is 2 way either thinking of passing or thinking of 6S. If your partner is interested they can coooperate, over that with a thinking of pass you can sign off (slow) and a thinking of slam you can bid slam. You should post relevant methods like this in the OP so we can evaluate the real auction and what people are thinking of.

sweet

Because you are 4333? More often than not 4333 opp 5332 will play better in 3N. Yes, it's possible that 4M will be better because you are off a suit and have 10 tricks, but a lot of the time since you won't take a trick with a ruff 3N will have as many tricks as 4M. As for "opening 1H because it's a suit oriented hand" that's great, I'm sure everyone who said that has methods to show this hand (notably gazilli). Because without methods I don't really relish the thought of opening 1H and rebidding 2D and passing 2H (nor do I like opening 1H and rebidding 2D and bidding 2N after a preference). I don't like 1H p 2x p ?, there is not a great way to show this hand type (though I'm sure you all have methods like 2N showing extras to enable you to open 1H). How about 1H p 1S p ? That really sucks, I guess we all play gazilli. How about something like 1H 1S X 2S ? I guess 2N shows this since we might open 1H with this, and with a bal 18 we bid 3N? And you know what, even if you play all of that, you have still lost something in the process. There are lots of advnatages to eliminating a certain NT range from your opening bids. For instance I don't know if any of you include xx xxx AKJ AKT9x into a 1C opener. Personally, I'd prefer to be able to open 1C on that. Unfortunately most bidding systems don't allow you to show a bal 15 after opening 1C (assuming strong NT). A 1M opener is different since there are more gains to opening 1M on hands like that (like finding a major suit partial) but it still is hard to deny eliminating a bal 15-16 from a 1M opener helps the rest of your system/competitive auctions even if you have great agreements. That is why a lot of people just open 1N with a 5332 16 regardless of suit oriented or not, because the strain of including it in your system in uncontested and contested auctions is pretty big, esp if it's optional. Certainly it is playable either way (though you need better followup methods if you open 1M), but the idea of bidding puppet stayman with 4333 (or regular stayman, or puppet then show your 4 card major) is really terrible even if you (like me) open 1N with AK AKJxx xxx xxx. Creating a thread about having these hands and going 1N 3N and having a bunch of people say you shouldnt bid 1N or you shouldnt bid 3N or blah blah is missing the point. Sometimes pairs take probabilistic actions that don't work. Sometimes pairs open something that in a vacuum you would not but because it is required by your system or you gain enough from the whole system concept that it's worth it. I mean everyone here seems to love fantunes, they open 1N on 4441 and 5242, that is clearly terrible but they do it for the rest of their system to work. It is a trade off. Another example is playing 14-16 NT that 1M p 1N p 2x shows 4. That means you have to open 1N on AKQTx xx Axx xxx (or open 1S and pass 1N and miss game sometimes). That sucks. But you gain a lot by 2m showing 4. Also playing semi forcing NT it sucks when you have 7 hearts or 3 spades and a 5 count and you respond 1N and it goes all pass. But you can't really post a hand and be like yo who bid it wrong when the worst part of your system occurs. The worst part of your system sometimes happens to make the whole unit better.

Well, no, that is why I said: If you do not play last train and 4H shows a heart control, then I still don't see why 4H and 4S are the only bids. You can drive past 4S with no heart control. For instance with Axx xxx Kxx Axxx I cannot imagine bidding 4S even if 4H promises a heart control, you can bid 5D. So we are already giving him a 12 count with no heart control that could not bid game after 3H, and you think that is "every hand." I don't really get it but ok. Can't he have xx Qxx KJx AJxx? K Q K A is surely the best case scenario. That is close to an accept over 3H, esp with 3+ spades. And surely playing with a good partner when he has a max for 3S, even if 4H would show a heart control, he will bid slam or at least cooperate over 5C??? He has already denied a heart control in your methods, so 5H unambiguously says they like their hand rather than showing a control, and with the DK they can bid 5D lol. Yes, jumping to 6S over 4S is just retarded, with or without the ST. You have a partner. What hand are you worried about that will miss slam after 5C? You give K Q K A, but that hand will at the very least bid 5D over 5C. Axxx Qx Jxx Axxx is apparently a possible hand for 3S then 4S, surely that hand should bid at least 5H over 5C?? Jumping to 6S with QJTxxx AJx AQTx ---, opposite an 11-13 NT with a heart overcall on your right, when your partner rejects a spade invite and denies a heart control and shows the ace of ***** clubs, yes that is absolutely ludicrous when you have the ability to still involve him. I don't know what to tell you, it is indefensible imo if you would like to defend that position then go ahead and make your case please. If you also want to explain why your partner is not worth at least 5H over 5C having denied a heart control already then I'd love to hear that. Also, with what hand when we hold Axxx Qx Jxx Axxx is slam not good when partner bids 5C after we deny a heart control? I mean seriously dude I cannot get over you saying with the ST you would bid slam over 4S. Not to be a bean counter, but we have a 14 count opposite a partner that has shown 11-13 with the ace of our void and no control in our AJx. That sounds like a slam force. And partner has also already shown a minimum opposite an invite in our suit. If that sounds more like a slam force to you than a 5 level danger hand, I don't know what to tell you, your judgement seriously differs from mine.

If west was going double and bid spades they must still do so even when LHO bids 1S.

I am forcing to slam (pending heart control), it is incredibly hard to come up with very bad slams and easy to come up with cold ones. Timos example of AQJxxx KQ Kxx Jx is definitely pretty terrible. Even with Timo's constructions slam is good generally, and all of his hands gave partner max spade wastage and in one case included only a 15 count, and in the others 16. Partner will sometimes not have the Q or J of spades (very good for us) and will sometimes have a 17 count like AQJxxx AQ Qxx Qx (which even on the best lead is 1 of 2 hooks and sometimes they'll lead a red suit).

First seat w/r I think very aggressive preempting is good, with some partners I even play different systems over 1st seat w/r preempt compared to all other preempts (eg 5 card ogust instead of feature, and new suits NF instead of forcing). I am actually pretty sound other than first seat w/r if my partner will play that style. As such, I would bid 3C on the first hand and pass on the 2nd hand (would open 2D if it had been avail)

One more obvious point but even when we have the club fit 3C might go down, so 2H has more upside there as it's more likely to go plus when right imo. We have 12 HCP but our hand is crappy and could easily lose 5 tricks.

Whenever I bid 2H partner is 4315. Whenever I bid 3C partner is 4522. I think it depends on your style, I would bid 2H since I think it is right for partner to be doubling rather than overcalling (or passing) with (54)22 hand types. I also think tactically it's better, people compete over 2M more than they compete over 3C, and it will be a lot harder to double 3C than 2M (not that getting doubled is ever that likely here but if LHO has 5 clubs they can double 3C sometimes). Like even when pard has 4315 they might bid 3D over 2H lol. however if he has 5413 they are more likely to find selling out even with 9 diamonds.