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thxs guys, i think i got what i needed. you might be right and this doesnt worse getting into right now.

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comparing everything is something you cant do, its too compilcated, its better to see how you get from system A to system B, what you give up on the way and what you get back for it, since polish club has many versions you can choose that you like one thing about it and doesnt like something else, you dont have to take all the components of the system. comparing this way is much better imo. example system A : 1c= 2+c , 1d = 4+d (normal 2/1 system) system B : the same as system A but moving all the balance hands with 4 diamonds into the 1c bid, as 1c now may be short in club you make it a forcing bid. (this system is strefa which the_hog plays) system B has A better 1d then system A but worse 1C, you see what you get and what you lose and decide if you like it or not, in other words you compare this component.

Free thanks for the info, can you tell me of a simple way i can make my own bridge software (even if it will be very premitive) ? i mean there must be some platform i can work on, and i guess there must be such a platform so computers can play vs each other.

I'd like to get into the computer's bridge buisness, either as a pro or just as a hobby ( i rerly do things just for fun, i must do my best to have fun) I have no idea where computer's bridge is standing today, i heard of competitions and know GIB is the best but i would like to know alot more, how is it done, how good are those comps, and any other info, including how can i get in. Thanks to anyone who can help.

This is a good post, two things i have to say about it. The cue bid after a minor opening is normally either a GF hand, or a hand with a value for a jump (8)9-11 but with both majors (the alternative would be to jump in one of the majors and we might lose the better fit) after the cue bid, the doubler picks her best major, now the only non GF bid is raizing that major, this mean u had the 8-11 hcp with both majors, any other bid would be natural and GF. Rado gave many examples, all good and make sense however some are judgement bids which have other possible choices. ♠QJxxx♥xx♦xxx♣xxx bidding 2m is the an alternative. ♠Kxx♥xxxx♦xxxx♣xx bididng 2d is an alternative. QJxx♥xxx♦Qxx♣xxx bidding 2x is an alternative. choosing what rado did is good but bidding the alternative isnt bad either.

Hi mickyB When you're trying to compare to systems it most time the best not to comare everything with everything, but to undewrstand the differents. Precision open all 16+ 1c, now lets change this to 17, did it make the system worse ? i dont think so, now lets change it to 18, worse? not by much for sure. now lets try something else, we take 12-14 balance hands and add them to the precision 1c, is it make things better or worse ? (better for interfirence worse if not) lets add 15+ with club suit, same response as before, we got ourself a version of PC. now someone can play PC and add other things , like not adding the 18 hcp and adding all GF hands, someone else can instead of adding 12-14 and 15+ club, can add 15-18 and 12-14 clubs, or make it depend on seat and vulnerability. someone else can just add 8-9 hcp with semi balanced, etc... (all those suggestions are current systems) No one has to take into his precision all the components of PC, if you like a component say 12-14 balance you can add just it.

Penalty your redouble said to partner lets try to catch them, if they run into my suit i will double, if they run into yours pls do the same, and he just did. this doesnt necessary mean you have to pass it.

Maybe when its possible partner can response to 2nt differently with min/max. like 1♦ 2♦ p 2nt p ? you have many bids avaliable here so you can play something like 3c = heart good 3d = spade good, 3M = weak. Thinking about it again it might be better to play 3M as the strong and 3c/3d as weak or super strong (which will cue bid on the next round)

You said assume expert, but even experts make mistakes, i would not assume too much, just believe he passed 3d with diamonds thinking about trap passing but then he got cold feets and decided not to pass it, this could be a close to opening with AQxx diamond 2(3) hearts and 4 spades. i would bid 4sp, just show what i got and let my brilient partner figure out what to do next.

I play MIDMAC which has some of your ideas. 1M = 5 card major 2c/2d = natural 6 card 1d = no 4 card major 1c = 4 card major 1nt = strong 20+ our 1d has some similarity to your definition of 1d. I like midmac, i think its a good, easy and fun system to play.

I'm not worried about creating a forcing pass. I want to put the opponents under the maximum amount of pressure. I want the opponents to have to make their next decision not knowing whether I have values or whether I am preempting. Well I think your approch is different then the one most member of the furum use , i like it, is there a book that support this approach of hiding more then showing ?

And this is the resson you shouldnt bid 4h, and choose 3sp instead.

I Bid 3sp but this isnt a slam try, i am just bidding to game but showing i got diffensive value, 4h will not create a forcing pass later, and 3sp will.

I really dont like the 2nt here, i hope i can make 2 something by some quick ruffing, i would pass, 2sp is my second choice.

First there is the qeustion of what is natural by responder. IMO a new suit at the 3 level is natural. a new suit at the 4 level - this is not easy i think there is a case to play this natural too, especially if we are in a 100% forcing to game situation, the other option is to play them as a cue for the second suit, why the second ? because my rule is , when a cue could be for 1 of 2 suits its is always for the suit which is harder to make a forcing support for. for example 1s-1nt-3d , now 3s is for spade and looking for slam and 4c is for diamonds, because its "easier" to support 3s then 4d (lower level)

As you might have seen i thought exactly the opposite way, i didnt care about hcp and wanted to show my suit as low as possible, avoiding even the negative 1d bid, and you are trying to seperate even more then normal precision 0-7 8-11 12+. I believe this is wrong, but thats only believing not anything more.

I take it back, should open 1s

My prev post here talked about normal evaluation methods, but there is one way that is different, when we are counting something together with partner, for example controls, if we use control counting and have bids that show controls (example an opening in midmac show atleast 3 control) then this can lead to some results that normal self evaluation cant. a good example of this is LTC, LTC has something that is beyong self evaluation. sometimes even parts of the evaluation system is beyond self evaluating, an example could be the trump honors in zar, if i remember corectly you dont get extra for having more then 2 honors , this is because of honors duplication. I tried to read what calls natural evaluation system, which i suspect has some points that are beyond self evaluating , but its writen in a way that my english isnt good enough for, not to the point if you ask me, because to understand bridge you dont need to talk so much (not to the point imo)

The way i see it an evaluation system are good for 1. computers oviously a computer will have easier time with a counting system then humen and harder time with system humens are using. 2. people who have to expalin themself to partners, if you play with a team and your pair went down in 4h after you opened a 1 hcp 1h it will be much eaiser blaming zar. What i dont think its good for is actually what zar ment it to be, a system that will help rookies make decisions like good players, this can help them getting better results but if they want to get better which will help on the long run they will have to understand more and count less, begining with a counting system can work both ways, it can work for the best and teach help them develope a better self sense, or it can make them abendon self evaluation falling in love with counting.

Misho i understood what you said the first tome, and after richard response its even clearer that what i wanted is probebly wrong. I thought its better in precision then in polish because my idea wasnt for the 1c opener to discribe his hand, i wanted him to be the captain and only ask questions in which the exptra info of the polish club is not necesary, as im very weak with relay im pretty sure im wrong and this isnt such a good idea.

Misho i see your point but this is why i said i think those trans are even better in precision, what i mean is after polish many times opener show his hand which isnt exactly taking benefit of this transfer, in precision i think more relay method should take place when only responder show his hand. Free - the 1s double negative is possible, but maybe you can go all the way without it as done in those trs systems after polish, like nightmare millenium and kalin-rumen , in those systems 1d 1h can be 0+ and there is no negative response on the first round of bidding.

I agree with all the responses except one. "You said the final contract was 4♦, that means you got another chance after your Pass" this is super wrong, if you dont bid on time, dont bid at all, this is the worse time to enter, my pass was made to hide my spade and hoping this will cause them to misjudge and it seems they do so now i will save them ? also in this bid opponents are in the best possible place to double you for penalty when its right, they know they are strong but have no game, they know their distribution... they know too much, if you dont enter on time then dont enter at all.

Hi I have those systems notes printed , and read them some time ago, i cant say i know those systems or im going to give it lots of time, but if you see me online WGF_Flame and want to try it, let me know and if im not with a regular partner i'll bring the pages and we can play. btw there are those who play something very similar to this but change in vul, this mean just the same when NV , but when vul 2c and 1nt become strong leaving the 12-14 for the 1c, this has 2 adv, first you wont get too many 1nt doubles, and second when you are vul and especially when they are not, they have the most ressons to enter the aution after your 1c , when you play 1c=15 you give them 1 more resson, they know they dsont have a game , so they enter with anything, when you play that when vul, 1c can also be 12-14 bal or club you atleast dont give them this . (this is played by some great players like kalin- rumen)

Thx misho , you are a somebody ;)