PhantomSac

This girl once told me that she thought guys who understood binary code were hot (obv she was joking). So then I explained binary code/how to represent any number in it and how that can be converted to text and she was like uhh I love you. If only that were actually the case!

Just wanted to say Avatar at the IMAX 3D lived up to the hype. Incredible.

Hmm wtf? Ok from now on if you send me your hands, I will send an email response "confirmed that I got this." If I don't send that then I didn't get it. If anyone else feels they sent me the hands please post here or email me or PM me. Maybe earthlinks spam filter is blocking emails with attachments or something, dunno. I guess I need to switch to gmail?

nope never got it. justin dot lall at earthlink dot net. I have little kids and carol's right now.

4 people have sent me their hands, I've only done 2 of them so far :) Will get to the other 2 ASAP, I think Carol has been waiting for a few weeks (sorry!). I have moved and played many regionals and have to practice for the nationals etc recently, but it will get done! Thanks for patience. TBH I have 2 regionals in a row and then I'm going to LA, but living in Dallas gives me a lot more time as I work at a desk job instead of at the bridge club and I don't actually do anything there. Apologize for being so busy, I haven't forgotten! Also to the 6 who haven't sent me their hands, feel free to do so any time. I am not planning on posting any of the hands, if the people who got my comments want to it's totally up to them.

Straube you really don't see why being forced to bid 3S then 4C, going beyond 3N, in order to show a "2 fit" in spades is not good? Ideally you can show a "2 fit" in spades below 3N, so that you can judge whether to play 3N or 4S!

Reopening with 1N shows a hand too strong to open 1N. With a weak NT hand type you are supposed to pass. So...pass.

Driving to 7D is way way way too much. Even if partner has AQxxxx of trumps 7 is bad after a 4S opener. Gambling on solid trumps for a grand when you have Kx is not good.

Yes I heard of tribal clans in india who do not even play negative doubles. Why did we even assume negative doubles here, I mean the OP did not state that double was negative, and there are some parts of the world where negative doubles are not standard like in those tribal clans. You post on an american website, and BBO is an american company run by...americans. The people who play there are predominately american. The people who post here are predominately american. When nothing is said, we can assume standard bidding. If we cannot assume certain standards, then everything must be spelled out, and it's grossly inefficient. We all assume 5 card majors here. I would say that 5 card majors are standard. Are there parts of the world where 5 card majors are not standard? Yes! Does that mean we cannot assume 5 card majors? No. In my humblest opinion, a negative double showing nothing about diamonds is standard. I honestly didn't know this would even be controversial or cause a debate. I don't know what happens in the tribal indian clans, or in the clubs in Germany, but I'm not really going to feel bad for not considering what the Germans might play when talking about what standard is. At the very least I am very confident on what standard in USA is, and that is what is assumed on the forums. Sorry if that insults you as a German, if this was a German forum I would not assume such things. We don't assume polish club on this forum even though it is standard. When discussing with Siegmund what "standard" was I knew he was talking from the context of an american. He and I simply disagree about what is standard, fair enough. But it is completely assinine to disagree with my definition of standard because of what happens in clubs in Germany, or Poland, or anywhere else. In fact most posts on this forum are completely assinine. Much respect to Siegmund for arguing his points with reason etc and actually seemingly trying to find where the truth lies, rather than say retarded things. I disagree with you but respect how you discuss things. Good night!

lol ok whatever. 1) I have posted the first 5 google hits, all of them seem to back me up that 1C 1S X simply shows 4+ hearts and 6+ or 7+ points (and if more than 4 hearts less than 10 points). 2) I have offered my opinion as a professional bridge player who plays every day, mostly at the club, often in pair games at sectionals or regionals, often against normal tournament bridge players, that almost all of them would double with many hands that contain a doubleton diamond/not 4 clubs/whatever, regardless of their diamonds. Siegmund agreed with this and my example hands (well only explicitly with 1 of my example hands). 3) I noted that the one counter example, a book from 11 years ago, contradicts itself and says that all balanced hands with 6+ points and 4 hearts have to double 1S (sure sounds like 44(32) is possible or 3433!). 4) 2 other top experts have posted in this thread stating that they think 2D should be a reverse, which presumably means they do not think that X shows diamonds. Siegmund thinks some experts are sheltered from what people play, but they didn't just start out as experts. They played a lot of hands with and against a lot of people. Quoting books from 11 years ago for what is normal now while implying that JDonn is out of touch with what people do now is funny, since JDonn might not have even played 11 years ago. I don't know what else I can do to convince anyone that the standard meaning and practice of a negative double in this auction is to do it without concern for your minor suit holdings. Obv you should find 4-4 heart fits. If you still don't believe me that's fine I guess. At the very least I no longer feel like the burden is on me to prove my point. The evidence overwhelmingly seems to suggest that my view is the majority view, so hopefully Siegmund will realize that his post: and Was off base, at least in this situation wrt what a negative X of 1S shows in this auction. GL everyone.

uhh lol. When you ruff in the long hand, you don't gain a trick?

I pass every single time (in tempo).

For fun: fourth hit: http://www.math.cornell.edu/~belk/negative.htm "Showing a Major Suit. If only one major has been bid, a negative double promises the other major. For example: 1D — (1S) — Dbl: Promises 4 hearts and 6 points, and denies the ability to bid 2. Since a bid of 2 requires 5 hearts and 10 points, responder must either have only 4 hearts or have less than 10 points (or both)." Nothing said about the unbid minor/support for partner's minor. Fifth hit: http://www.rpbridge.net/5a00.htm "In the majority of cases the negative double is used when there is exactly one unbid major suit, the primary purpose being to locate a trump fit in that suit. This brings up an important rule: If there is one unbid major suit, the double shows four or more cards in that suit." One example he gives for a negative double is xxx AKxxx T9x xx over a 1S overcall. Nothing said about minors. I am bored but you can keep going down the google list until you find someone that agrees with your definition, but maybe with all of these links etc plus people who play bridge every day of their life you will believe that people do not play a negative X as showing diamonds (or saying anything at all about minors).

A google search for "negative doubles" http://home.comcast.net/~kwbridge/negdbl.htm "This solution is the negative double. To use this convention, you and partner agree that if you open the bidding and the opponent makes a direct suit overcall, a double by responder is NOT for penalty. Instead, it shows: * At least a fair response (7+ pts.) AND * 4-card length in at least one of the unbid suits -- usually the unbid major suit. (Some pairs agree that if the two unbid suits are majors -- for example, after 1C by partner, 1D by RHO -- a negative double promises 4 cards in both suits. " Says nothing about minors, just that you show 4 cards in the unbid major, and only show 2 suits if there are 2 unbid majors. Later confirms this with "If you have 4-card support for the suit partner has shown with the double, you should always show it. " Note suit, singular. Second hit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_double "In understandings regarding negative doubles, the emphasis is on major suit lengths. " "After 1m – (1♠), in contrast to the prior sequence, most experts prefer the negative double here to show at least four hearts – not exactly four hearts." Note, nothing said about minors. Third link: http://www.bridgeguys.com/Doubles/NegativeDouble.html "If the opening is a Minor suit and the overcall is a Major suit, then the Negative Double means a 4-card suit in the other Major suit. By using the Negative Double to show this 4-card suit, your partner will take further action." Nothing said about minors or "support for both unbid suits." etc etc. Hopefully you can see you were wrong. These were not cherry picked, they were the first three google links.

Also I took a look at the (11 year old) book 25 conventions you should know to see what they had to say about negative doubles since you referenced it. There is a subsection: Doubling to show four hearts Under it it says "All balanced hands of 6+ points with four hearts must start by making a negative double." Hmm, what happened to having the other minor? This is far more common of what even beginners learn these days. The book contradicted itself, what a shocker. As I said, when negative Xs were invented, they showed the unbid suits. Now they don't. It also says that in the auction 1m 1H X, X shows 4 spades and 1S shows 5 spades. It says nothing about the other minor.

These two statements just don't mesh. A random 7 count with a doubleton diamond and no shape is not some extraordinary exception to some rule. It is a common hand that as you say, a large majority of tournament players would double on (I would bet on at least 90 %, I'm not talking about EXPERT players, where it would be 99 %). So effectively you are saying people will routinely double on hands that do not have diamonds and are not rare or exceptional, but that it will be a long time before the usual way of playing it is that it says nothing about diamonds? Apparently it is already the usual way! People are being disingenuous to themselves if they think that the X is showing both unbid suits, but they can just often have a doubleton diamond, and never have short hearts. In that case they're showing hearts with their double, and not showing anything else, regardless of what they say. But I guess we agree to disagree. I'm not sure why you think you know more about what standard bridge procedures are than me, but perhaps you should poll people you know, or people on these forums to decide whether you are right or not. Perhaps you are even wrong. I might even suggest that perhaps it is you who is out of touch with what is standard, but I don't even think that's true since you freely admitted that a large majority of people would double on the normal looking hands I gave that were negative doubles that didn't contain diamonds, and didn't contain a club fit.

I think it's better to just run clubs without cashing ♠A. That keeps your options open, and makes it harder for them to defend deceptively. Yeah that seems much better

So what was the right line? Ace of spades and then run clubs? What about in the real world vs real opps, then I'm sure a spade at trick 2 is a better line, so I wouldn't feel too bad if you didn't do this at the table gnasher.

Also I highly doubt that 655321 or jdonn would expect even 1 out of 10 average club players to take 2D in this auction as a reverse. But who cares? I mean this hand is an obvious 2D if it's a reverse, and an obvious 2S if it's not, it's not really interesting either way. I suspect OP really didn't know if 2D would be a reverse, so them telling him that it should be is very helpful to him and anyone who reads it and hopefully learns something from it. Presumably the discussion stemming from this will help people decide if they think 2D should be a reverse or not. I agree that someone should state as some have by now that you should not bid 2D with a pickup partner, because there is a significant risk in getting passed.

Siegmund, are you saying that a negative X showing just 4+ hearts and not saying anything about diamonds is not a standard treatment? I'm with you in general on the point that people think their system is standard too much, but that one is ridiculously standard, sorry. If you're saying 2D showing a reverse is not standard, I agree, few (almost no) weak (and by weak I mean 95 % of bridge players) know that 2D should be a reverse, thus 2D showing a reverse is not a standard treatment. In fact I think I even implied this when I said: Of course this logically makes no sense if one would play 1C p 1H p 2D as a reverse, and 1C 1S (X) p 2D, where the X basically shows the same exact thing that the 1H bid showed in the first auction, as not a reverse. From a theoretical standpoint it is silly, and that is pretty easy to see, but that is still what people tend to play. I'm not sure where I said "2D = reverse is standard and what most people play" because I said the opposite of that. I did state that 2D should be treated as a reverse for the same reasons that 1C p 1H p 2D is a reverse. Why did I say that? Because this hand was posted on the forums, so OP probably was wondering if 2D should be a reverse or not, and I feel that it clearly should be. You can feel free to disagree and state your reasons why. The only reason you have given that I have seen is that you think X says something about diamonds. Why? Would you not double with the example hands I gave? Do you think most people would not X? If you would clarify what part you are disagreeing with that'd be cool, that's why I tried to engage you in a discussion about it. If you are disagreeing with the hands I said are normal negative doubles, you don't have to believe me but you are wrong, and it's not some "hypermodern trend" that I am overestimating how standard it is. 95 % of tournament bridge players will double if they have a hand with 4 hearts that wants to bid, as they should, how else are you going to find your 4-4 heart fits? Of course if that is our disagreement then it is coming down to me saying "it is normal to double 1S with many hands that don't have diamonds" and you are saying "you are overestimating how common your beliefs on standard bidding are" and I'm saying "no I'm not you are way off." I can't really prove that I am right and you are wrong if that's what it's coming down to, but you can take my opinion for what its worth, I feel that I am 99.9% to be right though, and I don't usually say that.

I believe you can assign split scores (ACBLscore allows it, and I've seen appeals committees assign them), but what you can't do is assign percentages of scores. (Like assign a score that's 30% of one result and 70% of another) right

lol, don't bid with this hand!!

Why do you think a negative X promises diamonds? It says "I have 4+ hearts and enough to bid, if I have 5+ hearts I don't have enough to bid 2H." It is normal to double on Qxxx AJxx xx xxx, it's normal to X on xxx AKxx xxx xxx, it's normal to X on Qxx Axxxx xx Jxx, etc etc. A negative double is basically the same as bidding 1C p 1H, except it has a bit of a higher lower limit. As such the reasoning for 2D being a reverse is the same as over 1C p 1H, you are forcing partner to preference you to the 3 level if he has a better fit for your first suit, so you must have extras. I am normally all for the "obviously OP doesn't play it this way, so we should answer in the constraints of his system." That being said, if OP had asked us what we would do over 1C p 1H p ? I'm sure we'd all say 2D. It may be less well known that 2D in this auction is a reverse, but that's all the more reason to post it. It's not like it's a fancy convention, it is a simple bidding logic error that people have that is an artifact from the days when negative doubles promised the unbid suits. Now, people will always double with 4 hearts so they are not showing the unbid suits, but they still seem to think that 2D doesn't show extras.

3N is completely normal. 4H is wrongsided and you have 7 tricks for 3N.

This is how I was taught bridge (and I'm sure all of us were) back in the day but I don't think it really applies anymore, people just bid their second suit now either always or most of the time, depending on suit quality. We've all seen it happen where it goes 1H 1S 2H p and you're cold for 6 of a minor or something, it's just silly to have those kind of results in the name of having one sequence show extra values and one not. With partner routinely preferencing back to your major on a doubleton, there is not really any risk in showing your second suit.