PhantomSac

1eyedjack, may I suggest not bidding 1S on strong hands with 4 spades? If you are balanced just bid 2C, and if you're unbalanced bid your longer minor. In fact I suggest this even not playing KI. Creating a GF quickly is great, starting with 1S then having to bid a new suit or an "impossible" 2S is really not great.

And over that 4D shows a slam try in spades (enabling last train), and 4H shows a slam try in clubs (enabling 4S keycard, 4N last train), 4N keycard in clubs (lest partner preempt you over 4H with a 5C bid), keycard in spades always starts 4D. Seems pretty obv :D

If the rule is "with 37+ HCP, bid 7N" then if gib thinks we've shown 28+ he might just jump to 7N blindly. Of course you could make the rule "with 37+ HCP after some number of NT opening, bid 7N" but that wouldn't solve the more general problem that often if we have that many points, gib will find no hands to simulate and will do something stupid. Still, it would be better than nothing.

Seems like you just got to 6S opposite AQT8x xx Jxx Axx? Or are you implying this hand would raise to 3C if 2C promised clubs. You also will miss 7C opposite AJxxxx xx xx AQx because you agreed spades and not clubs. I don't know why this is surely the case. You don't show your clubs immediately because you think it's more important to bid NT because you have both suits stopped and are relatively balanced and leave some more room for partner. Bidding NT then 4C over 3N will describe your hand almost perfectly. If partner shows 6 spades partner shows 6 spades, you can show spade support and start cuebidding. I guess the point is partner never knows about your source of tricks, which is the source of a lot of problems on this hand. Still I don't see why its logically inconsistent to focus on the other features of your hand.

6C also looks fine on these set of hands on the same auction. Don't really see what the problem is. I mean maybe if you wanted to be more scientific you could bid 4S with your first hand instead of 4N, but that just seems like asking them to find a killing heart lead if you land in 6N or something.

Takes one to know one :)

But that's not what MECKWELL do, oh blasphemous one! Haha just kidding I also have never played 2S shows 6 but it seems like setting trumps as soon as you have a known fit is better than differentiating between 2 and 3 card raises.

5H seems like a good description of our hand (no black suit control etc). 7 is still in play pretty easily opposite as little as --- KQx QJTxxxx Axx (which isn't a 3D bid but you get the point). edit: damn when I started writing that I was gonna be the 2nd reply lol. The problem with 4N is partner might not show a spade void imo (since it's our suit). I guess it's insurance against being off 2 aces, but it seems impossible that partner has jumped then cued with 0 keycards.

Ok, fair enough if 3D is forced by your system then it is fine obv. 3N is also fine in that context of course. I think you had a perfect auction in your system tbh, well bid.

I would reopen at imps red, it's a double partscore swing a ton, at MP white it seems pretty lol not to reopen, sorry. Admittedly if partner is specifically 1444 and chooses to bid 2N and pass 3C we will be in the wrong fit, but maybe he will bid 2N then 3D with that. Interesting problem from his perspective, may depend if he has a good hand or not also (if he's stronger, he might hope to get to hearts since it's higher scoring, weak he will be happy not to be doubled yet). We could be 4324 just as easily, perhaps slightly more easily because we'd be more apt to double 1S with this shape?

I kind of considered passing for a second, maybe only because it was posted as a problem though... obv don't pass.

Nice to hear you say that, all these doubt showing redoubles kinda tilt me. What does it even mean to make a doubt showing redouble, when is partner supposed to run etc. Maybe I just don't know how to wield it but it seems like if they double us we always have doubt, no need to redouble. On the other hand on the rare occasions when we think we're a lock and want to increase our score and minimze the chance of partner running, that seems like a good time to redouble.

1000 % agree with 4N quantitative, you can't GF with 19 and no source of tricks. Dislike 3D a lot if it was avoidable, south should aim to bid 2N and see if partner can bid 3C (with 3 card support), or 3D with 4. South not only is positional with spades, but also wants to keep the auction lower and elicit some support. I guess 3N is ok if you routinely bid 3D with 3145 type hands, but if you routinely bid 2N with that (as I think you should unless your system prohibits that somehow) then I think north should bid 4C over 3D. 5C-6C looks fine, perhaps north is good enough to just bid 6C but this can't be too far off the mark.

IMO 5D shows a spade control. 5D showing a diamond control as well as a spade control seems much worse. I guess this is what last train means in this context.

I agree with 2N assuming you play a style where 2S does not show 6, otherwise I'd raise spades (obv). I wonder if people like 3C or 3S over 2N, and if that's impacted by how natural 2C was (for instance if 2C is your bid with 2443 or 3433). If 2C showed real clubs then 3C seems pretty obvious at that point. Even if 2C could be a random balanced hand 3C might be the best bid as it pinpoints your values and saves some space, though obviously the missing 3rd club could cost you. Bidding 3S would be reasonable/normal of course, and of course 3N is not good. Interestingly bidding 3C will probably lead you to 6C which is greatly inferior to spades even though them both a 6-2, so I'm sure nobody would do that when seeing both hands :) Maybe west thought he had shown 6 with 2S, and east hadn't, either that or one of them made a pretty terrible choice. Also, rebidding 3C would have gotten west to appreciate his hand a lot more, but it might also lead to 6C which is pretty terrible. What about the auction 1S 2C 2S 2N 3S 4C, is that coming in spades or could it just be a slammish 1336? If east could use that auction as a cue west could bid 5C imo. However if it could be like 1336 18 then east would probably have to bid 4D. Again if 2C had shown real clubs I think west could do something here, but if 2C could have been a random balanced hand, west cannot really last train even with 2+Q. Overall this would be a gain for a style where 2C shows clubs (eg if 1M 2N was nat), but personally I dislike that style. As noted it would also be a gain for a style where 2S showed 6, so east could set trumps and west could cuebid clubs, ez game.

This is one of the most clear penalty Xs I've ever seen.

With QJxx AQxxx xxxx --- if partner chose to bid 5C, then over 5D surely it would sign off? I also don't think this hand should move over 4H but obv it's just a gamble on fitting well in the minors and could work out, but I really think after 5C you've done enough and if slam is good parnter will bid it. Dunno if Frances meant what you said but bypassing a spade control because you are fishing for a certain cue to me is not partnership bridge, if you don't cuebid spades then you don't have a spade control imo, so partner is not going to cooperate if he also doesn't have a spade control. I have seen people write about cuebidding 1 below the suit you want cuebid, but to me this is just an operation.

I would pass, form of scoring doesn't matter but it's really obvious at MP I think.

I would never pass out 2S, easy double. If partner is 1354 oh well we could survive anyways just going down one or two when they're cold, any other shape we have a fit and our fair share of values and no spade wastage, and often we will push them to 3S. Xing over 1S is quite reasonable also but I would pass.

I mean obv there are different approaches, and when you need to get to 6S in the 6-2 rather than 6C in the 7-2 then approaches that emphasize/focus spades early on are going to work better. Whenever you see 2 hands you can have an approach that works better to get to the right spot early on, because you always know which issues are relevant and which need the focus earlier on. I don't like 3S because your suit is not really that good. Sure it's great when partner has Kx of spades, but gl getting back to clubs when responder has xx spades and KQ of clubs, or just when responder has a stiff sapde and has to guess whether to bid 3N or not or whatever. On this hand we are trying to get to a slam in spades where we need diamonds cuebid, so 1S 2C 3S is going to work well. 1S 2C 2S 3S is also going to work well. Even 1S 2C 2S 3C 3H 3S might work well. 1S 2C 2S 3C 4C has focused on the wrong things and is going to work poorly. To me jumping to 3S on a hand that is good but not that great (inducing a lot of guesswork), and a suit that is good but not great (inducing a lot of guesswork) just uses up too much room when level and strain are too much in doubt.

Nailed it. More to the point, splinters take up a lot of room so they can't have a wide range else there is not enough accuracy in judging whether to go beyond game, however we always want to show shortness and trump support with anything from a min GF to a slam force, so we need multiple ways to splinter. Putting some into your forcing raise is a great way to do this.

I could share the PM meistere sent me, but its veryyyyy unsuitable lol

Should def be a splinter, mainly because what hand can make a western cue? You don't know enough about partners hand. I mean with this hand for instance you could easily be cold for 7D or belong in hearts or in 5D or even in clubs or whatever, so you're better off just describing your hand (AKA bidding your suit).

I considered pass pretty strongly because it's MP and they're red, but I think my spades aren't really strong enough for that plan, and my minors are too strong. Trying to get +200 is quite reasonable though, or if they bid hearts making a takeout double. Not that surprised to see meck is going for it though, that's what he does. FWIW I don't agree with jdonn that meck vs 13 experts is a tie...meck wins especially at MP imo.

Why do you need iii? You need iii to make slam almost cold, but it is very good opposite just the DA and HAQ since they won't always lead a diamond. Also even on a diamond lead you are almost 100 % if partner has ATx. Also, how can you be off the AK of diamonds here? You have all the club honors, and the QJ of diamonds. If partner has no diamond control he has at most QJ AQ in the majors which is not enough to move over 4H.