was just my gut instinct, but you could be right. But I really think passing 1 or 2 is very odd in 2018. ok neither are great 12's, but imo these days u need a real real good reason to be passing 12 counts, neither of those seem bad enough to me! the first has a 5 card spade suit, yeh a terrible suit, but it is a 5 card suit, and the second i mean is it really that terrible lol. Passing a 12 count for me should be a very, very exceptional hand. meh