TWO4BRIDGE

If partner ( Opener ) has 3 outside Aces, he should ask for key cards ( w/4H! kickback ) after Responder's 4D-jump rather than cuebid . When he finds Responder with ♦AKQ ( the 4th step : Edit Correction = 5D reply ) -- guaranteeing all key cards -- and if he continues with the K-ask ( 5H! ), Responder can count to 13 and confidently bids 7NT.

If partner bid 5D over your 4D-jump ( following your 2D 2/1 GF ) and he held 3 outside Aces, then he didn't understand that 4D set trump and demanded cuebids .

If the "long ♣" hand did the "asking" , he doesn't know about the ♦Q . But after dummy falls, ruffing two ♠ is the better line. In either case, 7♣ should be the contract.... since both involve ruffing.

If you have a way to ask for the ♥Q and you find it is "missing", then 7♣ seems safer ... since you may need a ♥-ruff ( hopefully only 1) but 2 ruffs may still be OK ) to establish 13 tricks . [ Of course it is known ahead of time that the 3rd ♥ in the short ♥ hand can be discarded on the ♦ Ace ].

I think your structure is fine. If I correctly understand Ingberman and Lebensohl-3, BOTH NOW use the 2-level 4th suit as the "weakness" bid . and this ONLY occurs for the 1C open >> 2D reverses : 1C - 1M 2D - 2oM! = weakness, start of the sign-off. All OTHER Responder rebids are FORCING . This means that in BOTH Ingberman and Lebensohl-3 that: 1C - 1M 2D - 2M = forcing. It used to be in Ingberman that 2NT! was ALWAYS the weakness bid and a 2M responder rebid of his suit ( last example ) would be non-forcing .

Hanoi5..... I'm ready to "see" partner's hand whenever you are ready to show it. [ I think I tried to be a bit too clever with my Sp Q-ask ( post # 18 ) If partner has shown, 9 cards in ♥ ♣, then the 3S cue could easily have been shortness ( and not the ♠ K ) as many have suspected. So, a more prudent plan would be to ask for the ♥ Q . And kriegel's suggestion to use Kantar's 4C! = 6-Ace RKC is better . However, I would only include the "higher"-Q ( ♥ here ) in the replies ( it makes the replies so much easier ). The "lower"-Q ( ♣ here ) would be included in the King replies . ]

Between "lots and everything " .

If you "asked" with 4S! = 6-ace RKC including ♥Q but not ♣Q, then after the 3 key card answer, you could ask for the ♥Q BELOW 5H . However, instead, let's make a 3rd rnd Ctrl-ask for ♠ -- something we learned in a recent thread. And that is by-passing the 5♠ ( K-ask ) with 5NT! ( essentially, the ♠Q-ask ) . Replies are: 6H = no ♠Q 7H = x x doubleton ♠ 6NT = ♠Q 6S = ♠Q J If you get the ♠Q reply, you can count 13 tricks in 7NT : 4s, 2h, 2d, 5c = 13

Easy... 3H showing 3 card support and a double-fit.

2C! ( 2/1 GF ) ... what's next ?

I believe West has shown a 6th ♠ ( either 2S or 2NT! rebid, whichever you use ) , but I'd still go with the ♣-fit .

What is the reference for those Modified Wolff treatment ? It seems that they cater to relatively low percentage holdings for Responder. A few examples with my "normal" version for the following sequences in Wolff Relay are: 1m - 1S 2NT - 3C! 3D! - 3H = 5/5, GF 1m - 1H 2NT - 3C! 3D! - 3S = 4/4, GF and for the 5/4 or 4/5 : 1m - 1M 2NT - 3C! 3D! - 3oM, GF and the "sign-off" is : 1m - 1M 2NT - 3C! 3D! - 3M (WEAK) How do you describe all of these in the "modified" that you found ? The following 3D = natural, GF, 2nd suit: 1m - 1M 2NT - 3D And Responder showing a Clubs as a 2nd suit, GF is: 1m - 1M 2NT - 3C! 3D! - 3NT! = 4+♣, 10-12 hcp

pass again

Board 1: 1NT overcall ( "Stoppers are for losers" -- Ken Rexford ) Board 2: That 2NT! is an effective preempt here. Looks like E/W were lucky to get out at 3S, although isn't 3S forcing here? Board 3: East is a tad shy for a GF 3D SJS. And I can't fault West for passing 2D.

@ Zel...... Sadly , no on your splinter gadget....( or at least I hadn't introduced it to that particular partner ). One thing I have noticed in my limited examples, though, is that on the hands where the "rule" has worked, the Responders had trump support..... I tend to agree with you about the GF aspect .

Does 3♦ really "set" trumps ? Some might say 3♦ is "weak" ( a minimum 2/1 initially ) and 4♦ "weaker still" .

The 1H -1S sequence is always tuff since you can't immediately show a GF as in a 2/1 response ( unless you can use some "Brown Sticker" convention ) . You have to go thru 4th suit GF ( as here ). I have to agree with wymnan's statement: " I wouldn't bid 4H over 3H holding 3 keycards. " - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Using my system for 1H openers, I would "hide" the 5 card ♠ suit when holding 3 card ♥ support: 1H - 2D! ( GF ) 2H* - 2S** 2NT*** - 3H ( 3 card support ) 4H - pass ( knowing Opener has a minimum makes this pass easier ) *2H = any minimum **2S = asks for 4 cards ♠ ***2NT = no 4 cards ♠

1H - 2D! ( GF ) 2NT* - 3D ( extra length ) 3NT - 4D** 4H ( 1st step = 0/3 ) - 6D ( Rule: "Might as well bid 6 as 5D does not score well if 3NT+ were making"; Opener showing "extras" has a lot to do with this decision also; 2H! instead of 2NT would have shown "any minimum" ) My system: *2NT = "extras" ( 15+ ), denies 4 cards ♠ ( Edit: Alternate bidding to 2NT shows minimum open w/o 4 cards ♠: ......... 1H - 2D!, 2H!( any min ) - 2S! ( asks ), 2NT .... ) 3NT = denies extra ♥length (Edit: 3H instead would have shown extra ♥ length ) **4D = does not relish NT; might as well take this as Minorwood when going past 3NT... and no other suit is "in the picture" .

We do play Bergen Raises. So, we discussed 3C! ( Lower Bergen ) ... and we might get there :

Rule-of-13: To be used when you have one of those distributional hands with less than 22 points, and you are not sure whether to open one of a suit or 2C. Add up your defensive tricks (A=1, AK=2, KQ=1, Kx=1/2, QJx=1/2). Multiply the total by 2. Add all length cards of more than 3 in a suit. If the total is 13 or more, open 2C. Last night I held this 20 hcp hand: A K 10 x x A K Q J K x x x And I opened 1S Partner held the following 6 hcp: Q 9 8 x x x x A 10 x x x x and he bid 4S ..... all pass.... making 12 tricks. Had I opened 2C: 2C - 2D! ( not a bust ) 2S - 4C! ( splinter ) 4NT - 5D ( 1 key ) 5H ( ♠ Q-ask ) - 6S ( ♠Q but NO outside Kings ) all pass - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - If I calculated the "Rule" correctly : 2 + 2 + 1/2 + 1/2 = 5 x 2 = 10 added to the "extra length" of 2 + 1 = 13. I should have opened 2C. I realize 1 hand doesn't make-a-rule, but we had 2 others this week-- one 21 hcp unbalanced calculated 14 . 1S open in 3rd seat was passed out. Partner had ♠ support and only 3 hcp ( a working outside K ) and 11 tricks were there for the taking.

Sage observation. I've had to make adjustments as Responder about what I think is a "game force" hand . A good 12 hcp opposite "Aunt Gladys'" 13 w/2 quick tricks used to be enough.... Not any more.

Side Issue: How to make a 3rd Rnd Ctrl-Ask for the ♠ suit when ♥ are trump. Thx Zel.... I had not thought about the use of kickback-RKC as the solution until you pointed it out. However, my replies would be more in line with how I treat this ask. Normally, lets say ♠ are trump: 1S - 2S 4NT - 5any 6C! ( by-passing the 5NT K-ask is 3rd Rnd Ctrl-ask for the ♣ suit ) - ?? ....... 6S = 6 trump = no third round control ....... 7S = 7 trump = doubleton .......6NT = ♣Q ( Notrump shows the asked-for feature ) ....... 7C = 7-ask = ♣QJ Sooo, when ♥ are trump : 1H - 2H 4S! ( kickback-RKC ) - 4NT/5C/5D/5H 5NT! ( by-passing the 5S K-ask is 3rd Rnd Ctrl-ask for the ♠ suit ) - ?? ....... 6H = no 3rd Rnd Ctrl ....... 7H = x x doubleton in ♠ .......6NT = ♠Q ....... 6S = ♠QJ

Partner's DBL is "competitive". "Partner of the competitive doubler should choose the contract from the alternatives suggested by the previous bidding. Any nonjump bid (even a new suit) is nonforcing; jumps below game are invitational. Passing the double is a real possibility, requiring a suitable defensive hand with 4 trumps, or 3 trumps at the 3 level. " "Rules" for a competitive DBL ( below 3S ): -- Your partner had acted ( partner opened 1S ). -- Your side has not established a fit. -- Your side has not bid NT. -- You did not pass THE doubled suit at your last turn -- A forcing auction does not exist.

On the 1st one, after the 4D cue ( must be the ♦K ) , Opener can practically count 13 tricks if partner has the A and Q of ♥ . Opener should go RKC with 4S! ( kickback ) . Then, after finding the ♥ Ace ( let's say the 5C reply ), 5D-asks for the ♥ Q . And Opener can still pass the 5H reply ( no Q ) with "cold feet" .... or bid small slam . EDIT: I'm assuming Responder recognizes the 4C bid as an advance cue agreeing ♥... and not a natural 5 card ♣ suit looking for an alternate strain.

Even if West next asks for Kings ( showing all key cards and the trump Q ) , East's bid is 7D -- a source of tricks bid, knowing they have 5 running ♦, and the "asker" corrects ( to 7H ) . Unfortunately, East doesn't know of West's 4 card ♦ length. If West were 3 4 3 3, the 7H slam would practically be a laydown. Also, a better RKC would be kickback ( 4S! ) when ♥ are trump. That way the K-ask is 5S! , and under different circumstances ( no solid ♦ ) , the 5NT reply would show the ♠ K ( if he had it ) or 6C would show the ♣ K but deny the ♠ K . And the auction would stop at 6H . [ Using 4NT as RKC, you can't find out about the ♠ K BELOW 6H ] . And in answer to Mike's question, there is no way ( with either RKC-ask ) to find out about the 3rd Rnd ♠-Ctrl .