PhantomSac

It's kind of interesting that 6C is better than 3N if clubs are 3-0 offside if the heart is onside (and a push if it's not). Maybe this is why 6C was awarded higher than 3N? I think 6C is better than 5C for sure because of the possibility of 3N being played and beating 5C. This seems kind of like a game of rock-paper-scissors (if the whole field is in 6C, play 5C. If the whole field is in 5C, play 3N. If the whole field is in 3N, play 6C (winning over playing 3N for a push >half the time).

On board 2 I think north had Kx of clubs (at least at our table!), not KQ Comments on board 2 with that in mind: Han and I are not a regular partnership (we have played very few times)...we were not on firm ground about both 5S and 6C. Is 5S always coming in diamonds with a first round spade control? (I thought yes). Is 6C a possible place to play, or a cuebid trying for a grand (I thought a cuebid, obviously from my hand!). If 6C was a cuebid I thought Han should certainly bid a grand, but if it could be something like x xx AKQJxx AQJx then 6N is probably right. On that note, what would 5N by me be? Choice of slams, or a grand slam try with no club ace? Regarding his 5S bid I always view 5N as pick a slam, and 5S as coming in my suit with a first round control, though perhaps that is old fashioned/wrong. I thought it was an interesting hand. Note that even without the CQ, 7 NT the top spot; it is almost always cold on a double squeeze, unless the 3S bidder is 7-4 in the majors without the CQ.

Lol. Bidding contest has now been bid so I'll quit posting again once the scores are settled unless there's another round, that will stop my prfaniTTTTTTTTy at least! Enjoy the filter!

It's called a typo tards, you might have figured it out by my correct spelling of it everywhere else but the title if you used your brains, but you obviously have nothing to add other than to troll a thread and add no content.

Oh ok, I haven't really used the new forum so maybe I just excepted it to get filtered and it didn't! Sorry. I made a thread on suggestions for software

If this is easy to implement I think it would be a useful thing to add, at least for people with potty mouths like me who mean no harm but sometimes post profanity without thinking about it and offend others. Obv the easiest solution is that people just don't post profanity but it is helpful since that way it just shows up as **** and we don't have to worry about it. IME most forums either have this, or do not care about profanity, so in either case I usually just post F*%* if it seems appropriate and it either turns into **** or it is on a forum that does not care. This makes it harder to remember not to do it on BBF, sorry about that :(

Can't you add a profanity filter pretty easily with this forum software? Obv my bad for saying the F word since it's against the rules and sorry about that, but it makes life simpler if there's a profanity filter so that it just shows up as **** or whatever and people don't have to worry about posting a "bad word"

Heh I guess I haven't posted in a couple of months, I don't really read the forums much anymore but following this thread has caused me to read some other threads again!

Maybe he has Jx of trumps or Jxx and doesn't believe us ;) I am always curious how people led in the days before keycard, did they ever lead a trump? Anyways, you COULD argue that a trump is safer than a heart from any holding if he believes us, except with Jxxx or a stiff, in which case we should hook the spade if we're going to the extreme. IMO even if a heart lead seems bad from 987x it is worse or at least perceived as worse by most people from J98xx and those would be the holdings we're comparing if 3 rounds of hearts lived and the jack didn't drop. At that point it's not really a question of "would they lead a heart from 987x instead of a trump" it's "would they lead a heart from 987x instead of J98xx." Even if someone were equally likely to lead from those holdings, I think they would always lead the 9 from the first one and often would lead a different one from the second holding, which gives it a restricted-choice like element also. I suppose if we thought all of the following are true: 1) West would prefer a heart from 5 or 6 small over a "safe" trump 2) West would not often lead the 9 of hearts from the jack, if he did it would only be from J98xxx(x) 3) West would prefer to lead a "safe trump" from 4 small or worse, or J98xx or worse Then we could argue for cashing 3 hearts, and if the jack does NOT drop, finessing the spade (based on assumption number 3). This is way too deep to me though, largely because I think many people would prefer 987x to Jx of trumps, and possibly to Jxx. It depends on the player though and how much they trusted our auction to have the trump queen (did we have a keycard auction), if we showed the AKQ of trumps then not leading from Jx might be irrational/novice like (or it might not if they were hoping to overruff something, or hoping that we did something strange in trumps because of the failure to lead a trump...). If someone is of the mindset that any trump lead is safe when trumps are 3-2, they might always lead a trump from 2 or 3, so I don't see why assumptions 1 and 3 would both be true to more than a very small subset of people. Sorry if my post seemed inflammatory btw, I was just trying to generate some discussion about what assumptions we should make, since as we can see depending on our assumptions it might be right to hook a spade, or ruff a diamond, or cash 3 hearts, or play for a compound squeeze etc, that's what makes it an interesting hand to me and that is what bridge is all about. As far as I can tell Jeff Meckstroth is not very good at bridge-math but he is arguably the best card player because he makes the right inferences and weights them correctly so often. My view is that the H9 is so often 5 small or 6 small that we should start by testing that out since it will be true an enormous amount of time. After that fails I fall back on ruffing a diamond because I don't feel confident enough about any other inference (like the opp would always have chosen a spade from Jx or Jxx rather than a heart from 987x) to hook a spade. As such I can cash a spade first to test for stiff jack of spades before doing the hearts (although another interesting point about this suit in this situation in general, if there were no entry problems and you chose to hook a spade, it might well be correct to cash one first anyways in case of stiff jack on your left. This is not a good play in theory since they can cover the second one if they have J7xx preventing you from taking a ruff in dummy, but they probably don't know this and it's very natural to duck...). I also feel like 987x is more likely than J98xx from the lead, even if both would be poor choices in my opinion generally speaking, since one of them probably exists. All of this leads me to cash 1 spade, cash 3 hearts, and then try to ruff a diamond. At that point we have the question: should we cash a second spade before ruffing a diamond? This gains when LHO is 2425 with Jx of spades, as well as 3451 with no spade jack. But this means LHO had a desirable club holding to lead from in the first scenario, unless RHO had stiff jack (in which case we would see the jack drop when we had crossed to dummy). In the second case it would mean LHO didn't lead a trump from 3 small and chose a heart instead which also seems quite unlikely. The main gain seems to be when LHO does have J98xx and something like 2524 with Jx of spades. Is this holding worth the risk that LHO led from 98x and diamonds were 4-3? I don't know, I might try to read the position when I got there (for example if RHO played the CJ is relevant, or if LHO had 987 third of hearts it would be more attractive than 9xx, so which 2 hearts LHO followed with would be important...of course LHO could manipulate me in this way but most people are not thinking about stuff like that etc etc).

LOL - nice try! As I said multiple times if you bothered to read what I wrote... if the HJ doesn't drop then I think RHO has it -- 987x seems the most likely. EG: I think the HJ will drop very often but if it is a question of whether LHO has J98xx or 987x I go with the latter. So I think RHO will guard hearts in the event that the HJ does not drop, in which case ruffing a diamond is correct. But hey at least now we're discussing a bridge hand and not a math problem! IMO people are almost always trying to make a passive lead vs a grand that doesn't blow a trick, unless there is some special purpose (knocking out a dummy entry, or giving partner a ruff being the most common 2). IMO people also are not actively falsecarding their lead at trick 1 very often. Yes I could see this being the case if LHO had J98xxx (might give partner a ruff, and the falsecard is less likely to matter), but J98xx seems suicidal. Again we need an auction and what level our opponents are at to fully make inferences like this, but with none of that given I will work on those assumptions. But that is why bridge is so interesting, you or some other good player might work on a different set of asusmptions, or weight them differently. I do not think it is "results-induced" to just play to take their lead at face value though, and if you do then it is overwhelmingly better to try and cash 3 hearts. I doubt anyone at any level is leading from 9x or stiff 9 against 7S though, and it would be hard to convince me otherwise!

You guys are good at math. I know gnasher did not state what line he thinks is actually right (since he said disregarding lead inferences)...but it's pretty freaking obvious that cashing 2 hearts is right on the H9 lead. Do we really think they're leading stiff 9 or 9x against a grand? The biggest concern is that they have led the 9 from J98xxx(x) imo, but still when you see the H9 surely your first thought is 987xxx or 987xx or 987x which it would be against most people (with the first 2 being more likely since leading from a long suit with no honor is quite attractive). I would say MOST opponents would lead the H9 from 9 to nothing and length a large percentage of the time they chose to lead the suit, and they would often choose to lead the suit. MOST opponents would probably lead low most of the time from J98xxx, and would lead the suit less often. Not to mention that 987xx(x) is more commonly dealt to an opponent than J98xxx imo because I am totally excluding a lead from J98xx which seems crazy. Obviously the auction might make a difference also with how often they'll lead a heart from various holdings, if south showed a stiff a heart lead is always attractive, if north showed length then a heart lead becomes less attractive from the jack (unless you have 6 probably). Another thing is that with 6-2 hearts spades being 4-1 becomes more common, since we're working on the assumption that spades are 3-2 that makes it less likely. Again all roads are pointing to 987xx to me VERY often assuming spades are actually 3-2. It is possible that they lead a heart from the jack far more often with a stiff spade, or Jxxx of spades, but both of these are irrelevant to us since we're going to go down then anyways. People always say stuff like "well vs a grand they will always falsecard their lead" or do something tricky otherwise, but im strong opinion you should take them at face value ESPECIALLY when it comes to their opening lead, or first signal to partner's lead. Trick 1 is where we get our most accurate (least falsecarded) info and it is silly to me to take no inference, or to say it's resulting to make stipulations which make cashing the AQ of hearts correct which are obvious to me (LHO is not leading from shortness, and is unlikely to have the HJ). Furthermore, if LHO has led from J98xxx of hearts, and spades are 3-2, I am not automatically down after the HQ gets ruffed, , which seems to have been ignored by some of the math done so far. For instance, If LHO is 2632 a minor suit squeeze will work (overruff, pull the trump, ruff a diamond, ruff a heart to my hand, play the spades).

so (obscenity deleted by uday) bad Edit: i was feeling kinda bad about it then I realized when we lose we get another round, SUCKAZZZZZZZZZ

I will bid whenever Han is available until the nationals since he is in Europe. Usually we bid early in the morning US time/afternoon in Europe when I am still awake I think. I don't think it's that important for us to bid at the same time since it restricts us further on time when it's already a problem getting someone to host and getting han and I on at the same time, but if it works out and people want to I obv have no problem with it. Not really in favor of bidding 2 sets at one time though even if it's possible, Han is really slow and tries hard so it will take too long :P JK Han, but I know that I will bid the second set badly from boredom and we might get tired. If it's fine to wait till after the nationals for set 6 if it comes to it then I will make time. Thanks Ben for all your hard work with this, and also to paulg and hanoi and whoever else has been a host (I just say those 2 since they have hosted for us so I know about them, didn't mean to exclude any other hosts that I don't know about).

Did LHO have the chance to overcall 2S/1S over 1H? That would affect my play a lot. If I got the count of 3-2 in the minors for LHO (like if they played 3/5th or w/e), I would go for the hook if they had that chance. If I was sure LHO had 3 diamonds then I would delay the guess as long as possible, but I'd probably hook since I don't expect many to be in this contract, so -2 instead of -1 is not a hgue deal, and it is quite percentage to hook at that point imo.

Win king, cash one trump. Play AK of clubs and a club. If RHO follows ruff high. If clubs 3-3 claim. If RHO shows out ruff low and claim (trump to jack, club ruff, pull trump, spade). If RHO followed to the club and LHO showed out, play a trump to the jack. If LHO shows out on that ruff a club and claim. If RHO shows out, you are down 1. If you have a sick soul read/reasonable count you can hook the heart 9 if LHO has 2 clubs, but you risk down 2 which will be awful. If you figure out LHO has 3 diamonds and 2 clubs and you judge him to be unlikely to have 6 spades then you can go for it though. If you know LHO cannot be 6142, you can try to delay the guess and play a spade to the king, ruff a club high, cash a spade and then lead a trump. This gives up on 6142/7132 though, so you have to have a good reason to know that LHO does not have that shape.

I think they won't necessarily lead a spade, and if they do they might have only 3 of them to cash, and if they have 4 then maybe partner has the HA, or partner might stop both with like the QJ of both suits etc. I wouldn't really be shocked even if partner had 8 points, 0-5 seems pretty conservative. It might seem obvious to lead a spade but if we have a spade + diamond stop a diamond is more likely to be a winnign lead, trying to set up their diamonds while we only have 8 tricks (even if partner has a stopper in hearts, if it's not trick 9 if it's not an immediate trick). For instace if we had KQ xx Ax AKQJxxx or w/e a spade lead would probably not be good. So really I think they could lead either suit, and even if they lead a spade we have a bunch of ways to win.

How can 2N logically be a natural bid?

I think one of 2D or 3D should be natural. I prefer 2D to be natural and 3D to ask for a stopper. This violates the 2 cuebid rule i guess, but since these bids are STOPPER ASK it makes sense to me to bid the one you don't have. If 2D=michaels then I prefer 3D to be nat and to have no stopper ask in that suit. I don't mind 2D michaels. 2H cannot be anything other than nat.

I play X=takeout, 2N=game try in hearts, 3m not a fit non jump but usually implies tolerance like 2-6. I would just bid 3H with this hand.

So, everything is about context and what your goals are and what your relationship is like and what the other person is like etc etc. Is this a minor point that is irrelevant to the story/topic in general? If so, probably let it go, since it is annoying to detract from an entire story or topic of discussion to correct a minor point. People who do this constantly are considered annoying. However, if it's a pretty good friend and they are generally rational/interested in the truth and like learning new things etc, then correct them and they'll probably appreciate it. Basically in that case correct someone who you know will appreciate it, but in general it's annoying so default to not correcting it. Is it just a slip of the tongue or whatever and you know what they meant? In that case never say anything. Is it a major point of the story? Then doing so will probably invalidate their story, so you have the option of humoring them or correcting them. This totally depends on if you want to waste your time humoring them, if they are sensitive and will become defensive, if it will ruin the mood and you have to be around them longer, if it will spawn some new discussion, etc etc. Again, there are just so many factors, part of being a human being with good social skills is evaluating all of these factors, understanding who you're talking to, understanding the dynamics, the environment, etc. As others have mentioned, the best way to correct someone is in a non offensive way. For instance you can say: "No, that is not true. The fact is..." How will this make someone feel? Probably defensive. Probably it will hurt the mood. You could also say. "Oh, really? I had heard..." Make sure you watch your tone. This serves to: Not sound like an I KNOW MORE THAN YOU statement, or a YOU ARE WRONG statement. It's a non committal you MIGHT be wrong, but you might be right. It is friendly and sounds like a question. It gives the other person the out of "oh, maybe I was mistaken, I read somewhere that..." and you guys can leave it at that. No one is right or wrong. The other guy can look it up later or whatever. In a completely rational world, if the person is more expert at a subject than you then if you tell him hes wrong, he should only disagree if he's sure he's right. If he's sure he's right and you're sure you're right, you are probably wrong. However the world is stupid, and people want to always be right, so this isn't how it works with most people. The point if you correct them should not be to be right, it should be to point out a possible inaccuracy so that everyone is aware. Of course you might want to embarass someone or prove superiority, in that case go for it. There are good and bad ways to handle these things. Making people defensive and calling them out is always a bad way. Leaving them a dignified out is a good way. If the person is flat out wrong and they're around a new group of people or whatever, but you feel like they'd appreciate knowing they're wrong you can tell them later when you're alone. For instance: "Dude, you know what you said about...? Well..." They will hopefully appreciate that you waited to tell them. If you don't care about them then you don't have to say anything.

Copouts lol... This thread is really funny

3H

Ya youre right they have 7 diamonds so they would need to be 5-2 for the diamonds to block which is not that likely (since LHO won't have 2 and a stiff spade very often).

I'm usually down with 2N scrambling, but would have assumed it to be natural here.

2H, 3N is premature as we could belong in spades, diamonds, or slam, especially when partner has a stiff club.