PhantomSac

I'd like to play with gnasher or han or franceshinden if any of them are available and want to play. LMK!

GG everyone

No comment on these really, seems like EW undercompeted on 16 though!

Hand 13: One of our few good auctions. I think partner knew I was 5314 or 5224 with AKQ A A K by the end of the auction when he made his decision. The play is interesting. I thought 7N would be more better than 6N that indicated in the scoring if the line was this: SA (testing for 5-0 spades). DA DK DQ (pitching heart) HA Run spades On the last spade you will have to pitch the HQ or the diamond. If east was marked with 5 diamonds, pitch your heart. Otherwise pitch your diamond. If west had 4 or 5 diamonds I think a squeeze is automatic at this point. If east had the 4 diamonds you still have a C+H squeeze or clubs coming in etc etc. With this line you make a huge % of the time. There might be a better line, curious if anyone sees one! Hand 14: The scoring doesn't matter since we bid the same contract I guess, but I strongly dispute how often you think 7N makes. With east having 7 hearts diamonds coming in is a much lower % than a priori. Additionally I dispute that 6C>6N. If they don't lead a spade, 6N is cold on non 5-1 diamonds. A spade lead will be very tough from any non KQ holding. If they do lead the SK you can duck and have a squeeze against them when they're 5+S 4+D (notably 5143). 6N seems way better to me than 6C. Again I had a guess at the end of the hand. 6N or 7C seemed correct, and I didn't think I could gamble on the HA since partner could have KQxx x xx AQJxxx or similar. Another wrong guess.

Hand 11: Our auction was kind of a complete mess. After 2C then 3C over 3H I could just bid 3N, but I was worried about no diamond stopper/needing to play a 5-2 heart fit or NT from partners side/whatever. I chose to bid 3S. Does this always show 4 spades or can it be a punt? Partner then bid 4D. What is that? I thought it might be coming in spades with 4 spades and a good hand. But what would he do with a good hand with no clear direction, or even with a strong 5-5 in the reds, etc. I was not really sure, I felt it should probably be coming in spades in which case I should sign off in 4S, but I bid 4H just in case. This is obviously a terrible overbid if it's last train... Then partner bid 4N. Keycard in spades? Maybe keycard in hearts if we weren't on the same wavelength? If it was the first I was hoping he would realize I might nto have 4 spades to bid 3S, in which case a jump to 6C would get my message across...really strong clubs wanting to play there. I was hoping it would not be taken as some void showing response! Then partner bid 6D.. I still didn't know what was going on but partner is presumably trying for grand. Since I have a nice hand for grand I just bid 7C to emphasize the point. Now 7N was easy. Han said my auction made it easy for him but when it was going on I felt like I was making basically the worst bid at every point, and never had any idea what was going on, so I gotta say I think it was a bad auction even though it worked out. Hand 12: I do not understand your scoring. 7 on a spade finesse through the long clubs doesn't seem that great to me, and I don't think 7 should be the top spot. I'm not sure how 5C X should be scored, it might get only 500 and lose to GAME, but depending on how aggressive w/r 5C can be it might get 800 more often. Still it is dominated by 6H, and sometimes lose to 5H, so it's not very good either. I'll let others figure out appropriate scores but I think both 7H and 5C X are pretty bad. As far as our auction, I guess it goes to your agreements, to me 5C X is not a pure penalty double so bidding with a 7 card suit and a club void is pretty clear. I think hans 7H is fine, he makes opposite some zero counts liek xx xxxxxxx xxxx ---, and I won't last train over 6C often enough with hands like that or just the SK and out or w/e. I know 655321 and some others like to play a double of 5m as very penalty oriented in which case it's a normal pass I suppose.

Ben: you copied their auction wrong on 10, I believe it was: (1D) 2C (p) 3C (p) 3D (p) 3N AP I think your score for 3N is too harsh, not only might they not lead a heart and 3N can make, but 3N and 4C are often both down 1 even on a heart lead. IMO 3N should be promoted. Regarding our auction on 9: I have been thinking about this situation a lot (and more generally when to pass when they're red at MP rather than to overcall 1N). I think people do not do this enough, often +100 is enough and +200 is great. Still if we have a game passing sucks, and I felt like my defense was not as good as it could be, like if I had a spade spot. I chose the "run of the mill" 1N, but can't help but think passing might be best and defending 1S w/r. I think han could pass 1N in a bidding contest but not in real life. If I super accept hearts his hand is great, and often hearts will just play one trick better. Passing would be a bidding contest operation. Re hand 10: I took more time over 3C than on any bid of the contest. I think this is a tough problem but in retrospect I like a pass of 3C. It's matchpoints, lets go plus, yada yada. I think I may have let myself be influenced by the bidding contest, worrying overly about partner having a good spade fit or a magic hand for 3N from his side. In real life I think I would find the pass, but maybe I'm just saying that, heh, anyways it just goes to show yet again that I am terrible when I try to operate because of the bidding contest. Throughout the whole thing im definitely a loser when I try doing this rather than bidding normal. On the other hand han bats a very high percentage with it...I should leave it to him. I regret this decision the most.

On 7 my partner's 2S showed any hand with a spade invite (2H then 2N artificial). Maybe I should pass at MP but I had prime cards and a ruffing value so thought I was worth a 3S bid. Partner was not short in clubs, and was not even short in hearts so my ruffing value was useless and my DQ was of dubious value. I don't feel too bad about my bid though. On 8, after X-2S I could have bid 2N for the nuts. Maybe I should have given the D9. If partner is 4324 he will convert to 3C, and with 4333 2N might well play better. Still I had no heart card and partner could not convert 2N to 3C even with weak hearts so thats kind of meh. This kind of sums up about how I feel about my performance this set and even a lot of hans hands, a lot of closeish judgement calls that could go either way that we got wrong a lot. I feel like X of 2H is automatic w/w at MP, my hand is just too strong to sell out to 2H. It is really playing for us to be down in 3C and them to be down in 2H which seems like a small target. Additionally we could easily "have them" if partner has 4 hearts and passes, often RHO has no choice but to bid 2H on a 4 card suit and the support X is usually played as mandatory so they could be quite light in points (like 11 opp 6 or whatever)>

Lol you're so funny because people who don't know you will not know that you're joking!

I made this conversation into a play in my mind, not-so-loosely paraphrased it is: Mikeh: Game makes 35 % of the time that partner is passing out 1S; conclusion: it's a good thing when partner passes out 1S! Han: No it's a bad thing when partner passes out 1S if that is true. Mikeh: I do not understand [gee thats an understatement --JL]. 35 % games are bad! *sarcastic comments such as: Last I heard, that makes bidding game a losing proposition at imps. There I was, thinking all this time that one area where your knowledge was indisputably greater than mine was mathematics or, more precisely, arithmetic :P Or are you revealing your masochistic side....you would feel 'really bad' about a good decision?* Han: *said in a sarcastic but clear way* If game is 35 %, and you have room to invite, you can often avoid the bad games. In this way you might play 3N making over 50 % of the time on this subset of hands that passing out 1S is bad, and play 2N the other times, often making (and sometimes failing). Mikeh: *among other nonsense* You then responded with a post that said that missing a 35% contract was a bad thing...only when you were called on it did you resort to sarcasm while advancing a new argument. But wait, wasn't it mikeh who first resorted to rude sarcastic comments (much more than han). And wasn't it mikeh who added no argument with his, while Han made the obvious point that it is not an all or nothing thing that you have to bid game on all hands that partner would pass out 1S with if you start with a double? That's a good and obvious point, but mikeh by his own words "did not understand." Mike, here is an analogy. It goes 1S p 2S p ? Game makes 35 % of the time. Should you game try? Of course, despite 35 % games not being good, when game is bad you will often play 3S making, meaning when you bid game it will often be over 50 %. This case is the exact same, and where your "logic" has failed you. I hope that clarifies to you where you were going wrong. Yes you might double and get to 2N going down, or partner might have a max and game still might be bad, but it's a game of percentages. Your own argument of "game makes 35 %" is the perfect argument for starting with a double. Yes it matters how often 2N goes down also, but it's pretty clear that 2N will make a fair amount of the time that you stop there. And as han has pointed out, it's not like passing and cuebidding will automatically get you to the right spot, against that neither will doubling. But 35 % is a LOT when we have room to invite still, and is compelling enough for me to feel comfortable thinking that PASS will lead us to missing way too many games. Thanks for the simulation, it was very illuminating!

I wasn't trying to criticize or call you lucky fwiw, I just was hoping to generate some discussion about the hands and learn more about your system/how you got to the right spot. You did well, it sounds like there were almost no hands where you are off the AK of hearts.

Without a fit we would bid 3N or 3D or 3S

I really don't agree with this - why should it be thrown out because they overcalled 2H natural over 1H 4 card majors? This is something that could happen in real life and you'd have to deal with it. Why is the hand so much harder or fundamentally different when they overcall 2H over 1H rather than 1N? It is still a test of bidding and judgement, just because it's a weird scenario does not make it less viable. You still had the same info: they have hearts, at the same level (2H). Anyways we should probably discuss this on the thread for this board, but that's just my opinion. Strongly agree with you about board 4

5 I think Han made a very nice bid and was pretty unlucky I had a yarb. Opposite 5035 he needs little for slam to be good. How good is 5D? It depends on how perfect the defense is. Say we get a heart lead ruffed, I think the right line is to run the CT. If it's possible for them to duck the king offside that is bad for us. Say they'll always win if they have it. Now if they return a spade (best), you win, and I think need 3-2 clubs 3-2 diamonds, or stiff T of diamonds. However if they err and play a diamond or a heart you no longer need 3-2 diamonds. Say the CT wins, now you can play club to the jack, heart ruff, trumps, CA and again need 3-2 3-2 I think. Seems like a hard hand to score and 4 seems reasonable. 6 is a good ATB imo. We got to a ridiculous contract, but if he or I had had a third club it might have been very good. Should partner sign off over 2C (I don't think so). Should I bid 2H over 2D (I do have ELEVEN and a ruffing value and no bad jacks, so I didn't think so but my hand is pretty soft). Should something different happen after, maybe I sign off in 3H over 2N? BTW this is a pretty good hand for 2 way drury, han has a much better hand opposite 4 trumps than 3.

I agree that 6D should be higher than 5D but I don't think this inference holds much weight at all, the opponents have 12 HCP and only an 8 card heart fit vulnerable, they won't bid every time just because they have a void (especially over a 1S opener like the goodwins made).

It is matchpoints so going down 2 is worse than down 1. BTW about our auction on board 1, I thought it was an interesting hand to bid. I could have bid 2N transfer to clubs and then 4H to show 5-6, but I thought it was pretty likely that 3N would be a good spot if partner had no fit given my 6 very strong clubs and 5 bad hearts, so I opted not to do that. My 2N showed clubs and 3C showed a fit, now the winning bid might have bid 3D really trying to get to 3N, but I thought that was too much since I am often 1534 for that so partner will have a tough time bidding intelligently imo. I thought of bidding 4S as a splinter, but I thought 4C-4D-4S was a clever way to let my partner know I have no heart control. Eventually we were slightly too high anyways, I really needed partner to have Ax of hearts; he could have had less of everything else and slam would be very good then.

Ben posted the hand wrong, there was no CQ actually, but yeah rightsiding/wrongsiding doesn't seem to matter on the 2nd one. Doesn't really matter since we got to the same contract I guess. On the first one clubs by north is better than south because if they lead a heart through, you will often go down 2 in 6C from the south on an overruff (eg a stiff heart lead and then a heart ruff with the ten or queen). East might also try leading hearts with 4 to the ace to try to give his partner a ruff.

Cool thanks for sharing, I understand now :)

Fair enough but more importantly than his maximum/minimum is your maximum/minimum. Were you relatively min for 3D in your style? Also just curious is your style ACOL or something similar? I noticed weak NT and 4 card majors.

Ben we played 3N and they played 5C, we weren't in the same contract :( You added 4 to our score and gave them a zero which is the correct difference of margin but not the correct actual score right now (7-3), doesn't really matter but thought you should no. I agree with awm that 6C is not the best spot. If clubs are 4-0 you're down. If the diamond hook is off as far as I can tell you're just down. Maybe you're still not below 50 % if you believe that west is less likely to hold the DQ because of the bid and that that's significant, but you still have *two* spade losers to account for. You're not close to cold even when the D hook is on and clubs behave. If the spade king is offside you might definitely be in trouble especially if clubs are 3-1. IMO 3N should be the top spot and then 6C or 5C (you could make a case for 6C>5C if many people are in 3N...as in the first 2 hands).

Thanks for your contributions to the thread.

TimG, I think you did well to bid 6D. Was it because you suspected 3N was best so it was right to gamble it out? I would have thought after 4D you guys would bid 4H-5C-6D. Also, would 4C by you be a cuebid over 3D, or a natural bid? ETA: Fixed typo

I agree with this, when diamonds are not 4-0 6D is clearly >50 %. When diamonds are 4-0 3N will go down also anyways. 6D>3N>5D looks right

Regarding our auction: Again we were on a different page here, and I operated too much. I bid 3D trying to rightside 3N, or help us get to a diamond slam if one was there (or 5D instead of 3N). In a bidding contest, partner never has a 4432 weak NT! My other option was 1N since we play inverted minors and have no way to show a mixed raise. Personally, I thought that 3D would be constructive, and 2D inv+. With a weak hand I would just pass. Incidentally, I like playing this way when vul even when not in a bidding contest if I have only 2 raises available (NV playing a more loose style). We had not agreed to this, but we had agreed to very sound/constructive preempts. Han was thinking I could just be weak with 5 diamonds (ldo), so he was thinking more along the lines of stopping below game rather than slam or 3N as opposite a "normal" 3D preemptive raise.

Ben, on board 4 3N just needs not 4-0 diamonds, it doesn't need 2-2...it can handle 3-1 diamonds. 3N is definitely > 5D because it has 10 tricks 90 % of the time.

It does seem like 3N is the best spot, 6C is not that much better than it and 3N is much better than 5C. EG if it was 1/3rd in 3N, 1/3rd in 5C 1/3rd in 6C, 3N definitely has the highest EV right?