virgosrock

1. On Vugraph International level experienced commentators said if responder has only an Ace MUST respond to 1suit-pass-? Can't pass. They went on to give several examples. Maybe the same applies when 1suit-x-? must respond with an ace. Further this is the only chance to show 4+ spades. 2. whatever be the points or hcp it should be a highly invitational hand. 3. one doubleton and an ace :) who knows. depends on how you feel at that time. 4. west is showing good hand with clubs and diamonds. good club suit, diamonds on the side and a stiff heart. my take!!! vrock

Valuable info smerriman. Does MB(money bridge) use advanced Bots? Based on what you say the Rules suck. I like what Vampyr is saying. I just have this dreadful suspicion GIB goes for low probability end cases rather than high probability choices. These "bug fixes" reported are ad infinitum and ad nauseum because of the gargantuan number of bidding possibilities. I still think the number of bidding sequence possibilities are not that vast and a look-up table like someone suggested is the way to go. and a simple rule "GIB not sure, bid a supported suit" instead of passing will work better. We have seen the abysmal PASS many times. vrock

Hi scarlet in my experience of 20K+ hands I have never seen GIB bid 1S in such a case. Maybe I did not run into a situation where GIB was 4333 and I opened 1H. Maybe it was leaving an option open to play 3NT if the next bid was 2D. After it got the spade support it is never going to play hearts. Unfortunate you ran into heart ruff is all I can say. There might be something incredibly stupid that the software assumes since you would bid 2H to show 6+ while having 4+ spade support. A simulation engine will wait for more info to make a better decision (and in many cases) screw you. vrock

Hi smerriman I go here http://www.bridgebase.com/mp/mb/mbactivity.php and pick up for example 17-10-26 04:29 Win 2.1 X Movie or Lin X:5CE+1 17-10-26 04:29 Fee-Win 0.02 X where I have X-ed out private info. Click on Lin and it downloads and saves a LIN file which is useless. Click on Movie and get a pop-up. Do ctrl-A on the second row in pop-up and copy. Paste into proper place in hv= all above on PC in Windows 10. thanks virgosrock

there has been talk about difficulty with posting hands in this forum. the hv= bit works but seems like there is something wrong in the explanation of bids. Could BBO provide a proper way to post hands here? including Money Bridge. virgosrock

Well said Vampyr. i was trying to say the same thing but could not articulate it. Bidding based on Monte Carlo simulations is a waste of time. How many scenarios could GIB do in the what looks like 1/10 th of a second when the number of possible hands is 1 followed by 30 0's or something like that and the number of bidding sequences are say a 1000th of that. Pshaw simulation for bidding ! vrock

exactly! vrock

interesting thanks smerriman. will need to think about this. are you into software? vrock

Am still confused. The picture showed bidding finished at 4H. Who bid 4S? must be scarletV. Bidding shows GIB bid 4H and pass-pass-pass. I read a book ages ago which said when there are 2 fits game in the weaker one i.e. fewer honors to avoid running into ruffs. I think it was a Terence Reese book. vrock

Also, GIBBO has this habit of bidding 1nt without showing the spades. it tends to 1H-1nt!-2h- then 3 or 4 hearts. it looks like it is programmed for a fit. In this case there is an immediate heart fit so it bids forcing NT without showing spades. virgosrock

GIB NEVER (=20,000 hand for me) opens a 4-card major. I think when you post a hand using hv= etc. there is a problem. Better to look at hand records. How exactly were you affected? 4S instead of 4H? virgosrock

I read all the other responses to this thread. 1. I don't think a Monte Carlo simulation methodology applies to bidding. A different approach is needed for bidding. Monte Carlo is Lazy Programming for bidding. 2. Did the opps miss anything? Usually when GIB does "stupid" things the opps had something on. 3. Bidding is so much easier to program than play or defence. 4. I believe Bidding could be programmed better but undoing and redoing will open up a BIG can of worms or be VERY expensive hence BBO won't do it. virgosrock

how many flaws can you find? feel free even if mine haha virgosrock [hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?lin=pn%7Cshaharz%2CVirgosRock%2CRobotN%2CRobotE%7Cst%7C%7Cmd%7C2S269TH368TD79TCTJ%2CS38QKH49KAD46JKCK%2CS5JH257JQD8QC2478%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard+4%7Csv%7Cb%7Cmb%7C1D%7Can%7CMinor+suit+opening+--+3%2B+%21D%3B+11-21+HCP%3B+%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C3C%21%7Can%7CSoloway+jump+shift+--+rebiddable+%21C%3B+17%2B+total+points+%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C3H%7Can%7C3%2B+%21D%3B+11-21+HCP%3B+%21HKQ%3B+12-22+total+poin%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C4H%21%7Can%7CSupport+for+D%3B+splinter+in+H+--+4%2B+%21D%3B+1-+%21H%3B+rebiddable+%21C%3B+17%2B+total+points+%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C4N%7Can%7CBlackwood+%28D%29+--+4%2B+%21D%3B+21-+HCP%3B+%21HKQ%3B+1%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C6D%7Can%7COdd+number+of+keycards.+Void+above+D+--+4%2B+%21D%3B+1-+%21H%3B+rebiddable+%21C%3B+17%2B+total+points+%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C7D%7Can%7C4%2B+%21D%3B+21-+HCP%3B+%21HKQ%3B+15-22+total+points%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpg%7C%7C%0A%0A]399|300[/hv]

most gratifying is when GIB gets pseudo squeezed in high contracts. Probably has to do with how well declarer hid cards or GIB partner did not give proper count.

Please peruse this http://www.bridgebase.com/doc/gib_system_notes.php especially the section "How GIB defends" with a link to the book as well. if interested. Please don't pass on the link to other $MB players. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. virgosrock

whew!! thanks smerriman. i was quite sure i had not seen 4+S when the hand was played. I am walking on eggshells when GIBB-ing esp in MB. I was about to write a thesis on blurb records vs. hand records and mismatch in the database. Thus the pass is horribly bizarre. Loss of $10 at 0.5 cents is more horribly bizarre.

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?lin=pn%7Cpheno%2CVirgosRock%2CRobotN%2CRobotE%7Cst%7C%7Cmd%7C2S4TKAH59TQDTKC578%2CS59H37D369QAC23JK%2CS268JH2AD248C9TQA%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard+4%7Csv%7Cb%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C1H%7Can%7CMajor+suit+opening+--+5%2B+%21H%3B+11-21+HCP%3B+%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C1S%7Can%7COne+over+one+--+4%2B+%21S%3B+11-+HCP%3B+6-12+total+points+%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cd%7Can%7C4%2B+%21C%3B+4%2B+%21D%3B+5-+%21H%3B+5-+%21S%3B+11-+HCP%3B+12+%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpg%7C%7C%0A%0A]399|300[/hv] GIB misery. WIll give more detail if I am able to post hand using pigpenz method Well here it is 17-10-20 08:03 Lose 4.8 73.48 Movie or Lin pheno:1SNx+4 17-10-20 08:03 Fee-Lose 0.02 73.46

there is an explanation about GIB's leads on some bbo link which make complete sense. i think it is based on some book which proves neutral leads in a lot of cases make sense. Of course depends upon bidding and so forth. virgosrock

thanks manudude. i tested a post with all except the "hv=" and it worked. except the size is small. anyway around that? virgosrock

http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?lin=pn%7Cpheno%2CVirgosRock%2CRobotN%2CRobotE%7Cst%7C%7Cmd%7C2S4TKAH59TQDTKC578%2CS59H37D369QAC23JK%2CS268JH2AD248C9TQA%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard+4%7Csv%7Cb%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C1H%7Can%7CMajor+suit+opening+--+5%2B+%21H%3B+11-21+HCP%3B+%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C1S%7Can%7COne+over+one+--+4%2B+%21S%3B+11-+HCP%3B+6-12+total+points+%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cd%7Can%7C4%2B+%21C%3B+4%2B+%21D%3B+5-+%21H%3B+5-+%21S%3B+11-+HCP%3B+12+%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpg%7C%7C%0A%0A pigpenz I went to http://www.bridgebase.com/mp/mb/mbactivity.php was given a choice of Lin or Movie. clicked Movie and a hand came up on windows 10 desktop. did ctrl-A on above link copied and pasted here. Don't quite know how to make this bigger however does work. virgos rock

pigpenz how do you post the hand here as you have? thanks virgosrock

I have extensively played money bridge with GIB as partner. Never found 1M-2m/2M*-2M a problem. It is a great waiting bid to get more information. Of course the context has to be 2/1 is game force. Something like 1S-2c-2d-2s you have found spade support at the 2 level allowing very flexible followup. virgosrock

Hi tommyst we have played together in MB. agreed #8 is the worst. in general GIB does not know anything about sacrifices. In general it leads from nothing especially in NT contracts. this I agree with. So many times contracts are made at opening lead. It is always estimating the remaining distribution depends on cards played and remaining cards and bidding. and finally <drum roll> its own money is never at risk so it does not worry about vulnerability. virgosrock

After experiencing many many oddities and weirdness with respect to GIB AND having worked in the world of High Performance Computing (HPC) I am convinced GIB just simply runs out of compute resources which would explain the strangeness. If it works as Cloud software it has several instances of the same application running and it just gets "tired" and does strange things. The solution would be to have ONE instance of GIB software running to provide error-free service. However this would need expensive hardware. I know expensive hardware exists because I helped test it. But BBO does NOT care till a lawsuit happens which can happen ONLY in the context of money bridge on BBO. Public money is involved hence..... virgosrock

indeed Steve. I would not be concerned if BBO provided relief in such cases. They don't. And are seemingly arrogant about it. Perhaps a lawsuit? After all we are dealing with the public's money and no number of disclaimers can override that.