Thanx for all the replies. i actually have played a very simple form of pc in europe a lot. we used precision 2c, multi 2d, muiderberg and 2n as minors. i though it was a pretty good system, but i rarely see it played when i kib (for instance jec has a lot of different parterships playing). i kib a pretty good bit. i agree with bluecalm that it is a pretty easysystem for beginners and i still think it is mostly natural. anyhow thanx again