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A lot of things to think about when making these decisions. rho usually has around 8 hcp as do you. Of the 24hcp left p has at least his fair share and probably more but the problem is we have no clue how much more. If p is anything close to a minimum we are not ever going to win much by passing and we could lose the match if rho scores up 6 dia and can get 3 tricks from their p 12 11 10 9 8? you begin to see just how scary passing here can be. Bidding 4c with your hand may not look pretty but it will rarely lose the match and could actually have quite a positive effect on how this hand develops. 4c = 7 pass = 4 3h? = 2 Preempts sometimes work that's why we keep using them.

I would probably consider this to be GF hand opposite anything but spades and guess what they have spades. Especially true with partnerships that like to open really light. I would go the 1N forcing route (without the need for Mylanta) and hope to get in clubs somewhere unless perchance p bids hearts (roflol). Minors are generally ugleeeeee at MP but salvaging a + score usually keeps things from being too horrible. You realize you are at a disadvantage to all those SAYC bidders so try to not make things worse by overbidding in a precarious situation.

I like cue bidding sequences and they are useful far more often than exclusion blackwood, but when one has the exclusion type hand, it is usually difficult to get to the right contract via cuebidding. The question then becomes which arrow do we keep in our bidding quiver.

if you use 5s as a queen ask how do you sign off in 5s when there are insufficient key cards:)?

I would expect 4s to be correct 80+ % of the time. By correct, I mean making or going down less (x'd) than 4h making. Can anyone out there provide us poor uninformed masses what the % is for the term "logical" to count and is it solely based on the bidders perception or does it always have to be a committee?

The form of scoring sometimes causes us to do the wrong thing and there is no convenient way to recover. It may have seemed more important to p to look for a heart fit and then there was no reasonable way to ever get clubs into the bidding when no heart fit appeared. This means unless our hand appears ultra special (IE the cards we hold could not possibly be better placed) we should not blindly raise a shot at a small slam into a grand. (ie your hand would not qualify) if you had Axx KJ Axx xxxxx where you might be able to pitch either pointed suit on partners 4 hearts AND there was no way for p to reasonably investigate for this holding (after 1c 1h 1N) go for it. Even with this hand do not be shocked if p was being a bit greedy shooting for 6 but that is something you can discuss later.

Standard systems (including sayc) can use 2n (generally promising balanced hand 13-16) and raise to 4s after p rebid (unless their hand improves dramatically when p bids over 2n). This is an inefficient use of space (though easy to play) and more and more pairs have adopted jacoby 2n (game forcing M suit raise) even if they do not play 2/1. I also use my J2n to include invitational hands (opener rebids 3M to show no game interest opposite an invite). This leaves room for 1M 3M as preemptive (vs the more normal invitational). With unbalanced hands it is far better using a standard system to "temporize" by bidding their long suit first then jumping in partner's major (be careful and do not bid at only the 3 level unless you are SURE your partner will realize this is game forcing).

In case of emergency break glass:)

We really do not know what p has for the 2s bid. It is indeed quite probable they have spades but there is no guarantee and so we should try making a bid that will be the most helpful for p overall. (I have seen both hands). IHMO I think 3d is a much more useful bid than 2n or 3s (though I also feel the 2s and 4s bids were umm errr how to say this a tad on the optimistic side (2s = 3 4s = 1). 3d gives us a plausible place to play as well as keeping 3n in play and even bringing 5d into the picture.

Hate to let the opps push us around and our bet shot at game looks like 4s but we need p to bid them to play there. No guarantees with this bid but at least it looks reasonable and it is only 1 board at MP. 5d just plain seems too unilateral and is more likely to get x than a 4s contract. x = 7 p = 5 4s = 3 5d = 3

1c normal 1d normal 1h normal (many may jump to 2n here but it is a huge waste of space and risks missing 4h imho) 3c invite had 2s available for game forcing 1s natural 3n knowing p is limited to 11 hcp it will take some extreme luck to find 6c and no method I am aware of will allow for this kind of discovery. For ex: change the heart K to QJ or the dia J to the club J and 6 is looking bad. PASs normal pretty much told story with 3c.

Without some very fancy bidding tools I will make a direct bid of 4n and settle for 5d or 6d (a strong case can be made for 6s at MP) depending on partners reply. Now if my spades had been AQJTxxx I would begin with 3s since then the spade K would count as an ace w/o guesswork and if p showed 2 key cards I would "gamble" on 7.

The club and heart holdings are both high risk with unclear reward. The dia and spade holdings are very similar but the big advantage of spade vs diamond is that we are sure we are not attacking the opps long suit. Spade J

transfers have proved to be highly effective over a significant period of time. Eliminating the advantages to search for elusive minor suit games/slams might be worth while but a lot of evidence will need to be gathered first AND that alternative thinking is not better. For ex: I would use the following sequence for the hands you provided: 1n 2s relay to 3c 3c 3h hearts stopped and concern about spades, for nt purposes, with enough power to force to game. 3s partial spade stop Qxx does not count as a full stop especially when p is virtually guaranteed to be short 4c sets trumps (shows at least 6) and rkc for clubs 4d 0-3 4h club queen? 5c yes (due to known 10 card length) but nothing else to cue bid and generally minimum. The temptation to bid 6c if near max would be too great to overcome. pass (I have sympathy for those that prefer to gamble 6c) we can count a spade loser but there is no easy way to find out if we can get rid of 2 diamond losers so rather than guess we subside. That turns out to be lucky this particular hand when trumps break 03. I am sure others have ways to bid these two hands w/o giving up on transfers:)

I am curious, if you decide to limit your use of J2N to these limited "kudos" circumstances how do you go about getting to major suit games <without providing "leakage">?

4h is right the first time around not the non forcing 3h:) While your hand has a ton of offensive potential note that it takes a LOT of perfectly placed hcp in your partners hand (or a lucky lead) to allow you to make 6. It takes quite a bit of partnership discussion to accurately get to slam on these hands. 4H has another advantage it is preemtive. note that while you have a ton of offense your defensive potential (especially after p bids 1h) has dwindled to around 1 trick. That means your opps may have something they have not found yet and anything less than 4h only makes it easier for them to back in. Before looking for slam make sure it is worth the risk and it is decidedly not worth it this time.

After trying a whole kit and caboodle of systems I have "settled" into the following scheme: after 3d (transfer) 3h 2/3/4 card support does not expect to make game opposite Qxxxx and out (Axxx QJx KQJ AKJ) 3s 5 spades 2 hearts (sometimes 1:)) hoping to escape for another day^ 3n no long suit asks splinter if responder interested in slam (Kxx Axxx AKQJ Ax) 4c super accept 5 clubs 4d super accept 5 diamonds 4h super accept no decent splinter suits and no long suits (Kxxx AQJx KQxx KQ) After 3h (transfer) 3s 2/3/4 card support does not expect to make game opposite Qxxxx and out. (see above) 3N (same as above) 4c same as above 4d same as above 4h super accept 5 hearts at least HH 4s same as above The presence of a 5 card suit in opener's hand can make a huge difference for slam and is much more likely than the presence of another 5+ card suit in responder's hand. Easy to remember and most continuations are easy also. * This can just as easily be played as 5 spades and super accept but have found more utility using it as a secondary option. PART B of the question 3d (transfer) 3h 3x (except for 3n) seems better to play as a splinter since the incidence of 2 5 card+ suits in the same hand is pretty small.

well done. Your partner heard that you have a long dia suit and a game forcing hand yet they chose 3n. I would be shocked if p had as much as 2 kings (and dia support) where they should at least choose 4d). I like your approach to the bidding. Holding 3 cards in each major your sequence made it possible for partner to introduce either (5 card) major. If you had jumped to 3n that would likely make a major suit game/slam impossible. 3n might indeed be the limit of the hand but 4h/s rates to score as many if not more tricks than 3n. Another factor is that you have no honor combinations that need protection from the opening lead. Your p might have the stray spade Q which might become invaluable in 3n played from their side of the table. In essence you might have rightsided 3n. Yes defense after trick 1 will be easier when the gorilla hits the table but if p is weak there will most likely be little to the play anyway. Oddly enough it could also turn out to be beneficial if p has some unexpected holding (like QJT of clubs) where they can might be able to drop the J and Q the first two rounds possibly encouraging a club continuation to an otherwise impossible to reach trick (or QJx dropping x then Q for the same result). Bidding 2n undervalues this probable 9 trick hand. Do not concern yourself with always having the bid hand hidden. Try and see the big picture and go for the bidding plan that offers your side the best chance to reach a variety of contracts. I applaud your 3d bid keep up the good work.

It takes a boatload of stuff from p to make game so since we have close to zero defense and a hand that hugely prefers to play in spades vs elsewhere the time seems ripe for a preempt. The only question is how high. 3s seems about right. the 8th card helps make up for lack of quality and it is the same bid I would make if the QJ of clubs were xx. Since p needs a boatload of points for us to make game choosing to bid 4 right now is much riskier even though the vul game possibility is enticing. The huge downside of 4s is p might consider slam with far less than normal. They will be far less tempted to get carried away if we just bid 3s. 4s doe indeed provide some extra preemption so it is hardly hopeless. My choice of 3s is most likely due to hammering overly aggressive opps and not wishing to return the favor anytime soon. 3s = 8 4s = 5 2s = 4 pass = 3 1s = 2 (better than 7n)

I put the spoiler there because I feel the bidding is more geared to advanced than intermediate (or my idea of intermediate is insufficient)

PASS I see many like 4s I wonder which Jack made the difference? 65 come alive needs some restraint. We did well when we passed on our first try yet now suddenly we are acting like we are near the top of pour passed hand status. We have NO CLUE why rho bid 4h and we have NO CLUE how strong either of our opps are. If p cannot act again it is hugely unlikely we can make anything. I have some feelings for 4s bidders though--not becasue I expect them to make anything unless p has significant extras- but because there is a fair chance the opps might save in 5h un;ess they x of course:) Is there any chance we can let poor partner look at their hand and see if further action is warranted?

I must admit to preferring the x to show clubs with a decent (Axx xx Axx KQxxx) hand. The card showing x (which can easily be an ace stronger) can wait until the opps reveal their garbage stayman. If the opps do not have a garbage stayman all one is accomplishing with x is to tell the opps how to play the hand since p will invariably be broke. This also leaves 3c available as a preempt. I can't believe is saw biting sarcasm from Mikeh:)

:) ahh the old quote out of context are you perchance into politics? the original statement if it wins and if not hope lho does not return a heart seems to make a strong case for lho holding the a and not the Q (else maybe cash a heart vs return a heart). I was just filling in the information void since ducking the K in order to keep us from rectifying the count for a squeeze is quite a common defensive tactic. This fact greatly increases the odds that lho (sans heart Q) will duck the K due to the fog of war and there is more to leading toward the K than merely hoping lho will not return a heart to their p queen when they win the ace:) It is also a reason playing toward the K is vastly superior that leading to the J since a positive signal from rho is much more likely to get a heart return when lho wins the Q (they will not duck). Since this is the expert site I agree that my expansion of the thought can easily be considered gilding the lily.

No style points for me as I prefer to simply bash away with a simple 4c There is no point in pretending we want to keep hearts or 3n open as possible contracts. We have 1 defensive trick and the huge size of our club suit may well downgrade any club honors p has for defense. The best way to describe hands such as this are preempts. This hand has just enough extra to make 4c a worthwhile effort. At these colors p should expect me to deliver 8 tricks so they will need to find 3 in their hand to raise to game. P will also be forewarned about our lack of defense should the opps bid. Lots of pluses not many negatives. We could be too high in 4c with the opps having only a partial but that rates to happen a small % of the time. A modest case can be made for 5c since it ups the ante on preemption and has the potential for a vul game bonus if p has the right seeing eye cards and there is no rational way to search for those cards. The downside is not only the extra 300 when things go badly but the greatly increased probability of being x than the 4c opening adding a ton more negative. Opening 1c is going to be a nightmare almost no matter how the bidding proceeds. Lack of defense and unwillingness to play anything but clubs are a huge detriment to the go slow approach. It sounds safe in theory but the practical application in competitive auctions makes 1c a semi reckless choice without the benefits of game bonus a 5c opener will have (though the 1c opener has less risk balancing those two extremes out). 4c = 8 3c = 6 5c = 4 1c = 4

It seems too unilateral for one to decide to let 3s ride when 3n could more than easily be right. This hand which is right near the top of the weak hands p might hold and decide to pass 3s with is one that might fall through the cracks. I never claimed 3s was a cure all just that it rated to be right quite a lot opposite a hand p intended to pass 3s with. A stronger case can be made for raising to 4s vul at imps.