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4s for me It is impossible for me to have 4 spades and it is not reasonable for p to be searching for a 43 spade fit (they cannot have 5 spades). I cannot have dia support and spade shortness (no 3s over 2d). this has little to no choice but to further emphasize the distribution of my hand and show my short spade. My hand also cannot be 1624 since I had a simple 4d bid over 3s. If p is worried about 3n my hand has gotten a ton better and a simple 4h bid might be xxx AKQxxx void AQJx. 0625 4c seems like a better description so all in all 4s really should look pretty much like the given hand.

There is a rather huge difference btn forcing and game forcing. Forcing merely means partner cannot pass (unless lho does something other than pass) the forcing bid. A great example 1n p 2d (transfer) p 2h. The 2d bid was forcing but not necessarily game forcing. 2/1 a simple sequence of 1s 2c 2d the 2c bid created a game forcing situation and thus the 2d bid is forcing because of the game force created earlier with 2c. 1h 1s p 2h this cue bid (invitational + raise of spades) is forcing but not game forcing. It is important for partnerships to iron out which sequences are what and starting with the same terminology is a good start:))))))))))))))))))))))))

I am not in love with that opening hand but partnership agreement is always important. If the 1H bid falls within the parameters of a normal bid then by all means show the short club and if your partnership has no method on how to proceed after 3c <silently trials off>

I am unsure if you are lol because my statement was so completely obvious it was not worth mentioning or because i was completely oblivious to the above reference that agrees with my statement Or you wanted to play devil's advocate and show at least one in disagreement.

3d = non forcing If the bidding proceeds 1c 1s x p I doubt there is anyone that would disagree that 2d is non forcing. The fact that 2s was bid should not remove from our arsenal the very important concept of a highly distributional yet weakish hand that wishes to compete. I can create a ton of them but for ex A A xxxxx Axxxxx. Surely we need t do something over 2s yet w/o a NON forcing 3d we are almost completely hamstrung. The worst part about not playing 3d as non forcing is we have an x available for hand of greater strength or 3s for hands that only need a spade stop for 3n. We can also add some power with slightly less distribution and still only wish to make our bid non forcing Kx A Kxxx Axxxxx. The weaker we like to open our hands the more important it is to keep 3d as non forcing would you open A A Qxxx xxxxxxx 1c? if so you definitely need that 3d bid as non forcing.

I will be hanging around if needed.

Sour grapes is quite common unfortunately. No one likes being "fixed" and it is mainly because no one like bad luck and you just happened to be at "their" table when you chose to bid 2s. Do not be concerned with these rants BUT any time you hear a comment like that it may be best to ask? Should we call the director in case you were injured? Normally that will not only shut up the "bullies" but will earn you a reputation as one that wants to play fair:)

YMM obviously V sorry but I cannot figure that out, can you please clarify?

I echo the above and want to throw in some reasoning. The % of hands where stopping in 3s is correct is tiny. It is generally much better to use the 3s bid as forcing to allow for the partnership to explore for the proper contract. This is true even if you have a weak misfit opposite diamonds and really really really prefer to be in spades QJTxxx xxx void Kxxx or some such:)))

MP 3d IMPS 5d going down 2 undoubled at MP can be a huge disaster when opps can only make a partial. We need quite a reasonable amount from p not only in power but aces to make 5d. I admit it will be tough for partner to raise dia even if they hold the right minimal cards but i prefer to try and take a positive score at MP rather than worrying about finding a perfecto overcall opposite. IMPS is another story going down 200 opposite a partial is no big deal and since there is little to no way to reasonably search for the right cards from p I prefer to blast to vul game. IMPS also can win if opps can make game (an admittedly small %). This applies to MP as well but partial is a ton more likely to be the opps limit than game.

We see these types of hands a LOT where p appears to have a singleton or void in the opps suit and we hold nothing of value. It is a splinter situation but one where we "know" there are no wasted values in the opps' suit. Even if p is dead minimum there should be some reasonable play for 5d or 5h especially if p has a void. These kinds of situations practically scream for bidding further so I have to echo 4n at this point and even if I had x the first time around I would still bid 4n since p could all too easily be hampered by the all too real possibility we have "stuff" in spades and may wish to x.

SIGH getting OLD I could have sworn lho pitched a spade not a dia so my :odds: have taken a huge dump but still favorable to let it ride. TY for correction

It is right to ruff this trick only when rho began with Jxx in diamonds. It is right to NOT ruff this dia anytime rho began with xx(very unlikely due to no dia bid) xxx xxxx. There is NOTHING in the bidding or play that appears to alter these odds. I prefer to go with the odds (how many times have I regretted saying that) and NOT ruff this trick. Even if I lose I might still win the post mortem in the forums:)

Once p bids 4s it becomes necessary for north to bid 5c. This should show the presence of a max 1 loser suit and an inability to take over the bidding due to a severe lack of controls. South will bid 5d and north should continue with 5h (since they have a club loser) and south should have little trouble bidding 6c knowing there is a huge risk of a club ruff in a heart contract.

The minority report is giving the rasberries to any and all players wishing to lay the blame on east. For those blaming east what would you do <over 3h> with a hand like QJx x Kxx KQJxxx. this defenseless wonder will rightfully pass so this brings us around full circle to what does east with 3 quick tricks do <over 3h>. IMHO x is the only reasonable conclusion. Would you get angry at east for x if they began with Axx A xxx Axxxxx? These minimum opening bids with 3 probable defensive tricks are not very common and need to be treated with more respect than the run of the mill minimum <especially at MP where an extra 50 is huge>. Now let's get back to west. After 3h exactly how many hearts do they expect their partner to have? Any reasonable conclusion would be 1 or maybe zero. SO if the opps seemed destined to score at least 6 heart tricks How many do we expect to set 3h vs how many do we expect to make in 4c (or more). If p has a min with 3 aces we will probably set them 1 trick what if p has AK of clubs? hmmm lets see if p has at most 1 heart and a max of 3 spades it would appear they have an absolute minimum of 5 clubs and a reasonable conclusion would be 6+ is far more likely than exactly 3145. That means p AK of clubs are really only worth 1 trick and the opps are now favorites to make 3h <ummm ick>. What are the odds we are in trouble in 4c? We will probably lose a club and a heart and on a bad day lose 3 more tricks for down 2 --- odds of the opps x 4c should be somewhere close to zero so we are trading in the opps making 3hx for -50 or -100 seems like a good trade off for me. NOW the next phase if p has "extra values". Normally these transferrable values mean at least 3 defensive tricks (eerily similar to the 3 defensive tricks available for a minimum). So what qualifies as extra values? Flattish distribution or as reasonably close as the bidding will allow plus let us say one king greater value than minimum. That means we use the same math as above and primarily transfer 1 trick from the opponents and add one to our side. So we now have the opps going down 1 in 3hx and our side is now making 4c or down 1. Are we really certain it is a gross idea to pull the x to 4c hoping against hope that we cannot make it? What if opener has that extra K and a 6th club now 5c is stating to look like it needs 22 clubs at worst and the absolute most we will set the opps is for 300. Sketchy thinking at best but at least partially defensible at MP. Remember that first hand that I said should pass? QJx x Kxx KQJxxx It is unreasonable to add the heart K so lets add an ace AQJ x Kxx KQJxxx or QJx x Kxx AKQJxx. Both of these hands have extra values and each is hugely dependent on partners heart holding as to where the contract belongs. X (by east) works for these hands works also but note that now the combined holdings make our side a monstrous favorite to make 5c. All of this means that the minority report lays 100% of the blame on a failure of imagination by WEST. Realizing their p has at most a singleton heart and they have no wasted heart values is practically screaming bid further do not pass. At MP 4c = 8 P = 4 at IMPS 4c = 9 P = 2 so the form of scoring does cut west some slack but IMHO the pass got their side the zero they deserved on this hand.

While 3n (rhm) is indeed our most likely game I am unconvinced that worrying about game should be much more than a minor consideration with this hand. If p cannot show enough power and heart control enough for 3n our heart K is nothing but yet another in a long line of wasted values. I prefer the method that gives us our best shot at multiple contracts with small risk so I would begin with 2c. I would choose this even if I have 1n available as a weaker PO version. What happens next is yet to be determined but I much prefer my follow ups (if any) over my 2c bid than say if I x where dia bids give me stomach pains. IMHO 2c=8 1n(weak version) = 6 x = 5 2h (michaels or top/bottom cue) = 3 1s = 2

I give most of the blame to west (75) but east still gets (25) for being too pessimistic. I do not agree that 3s is always a slam try but it should still be strong enough to have 4d*/5d as an alternative contract if 3n seems unfeasible. I will admit that I like the freedom to *"stop on a dime" (rhm) in case opener's hand is both minimum and some wasted spade power. This gives the bidding sequence much greater utility with only the tiniest of risks. I have no problem with the beginning (not happy with the system but it is useable here). My main problem is with 3n over 3s. If the opening bidder had the heart J instead of the spade K what would they have bid over 3s? 3N would seems at best a poor bet and we need some other mechanism to show the spade A and a min (with this hand 4c would be a cue bid and show the spade ace and little to nothing much else wasted. Now back to opener. With this tippy top, 4 card support, control laden monster 3s seems almost intentionally misleading. I have some sympathy for 3n bidders due to MP scoring but if p really had enough to consider 4/5 diamonds opposite a bad min surely 4n will be safe if responder had no slam interest. I would treat this hand as a super accept and bid 4n which should describe this hand very nicely. If the spade K were the spade Q I would have been bidding 3n so this is a pretty darn close decision. Responder does not get off scot free. Claiming 3n is the last makeable spot will only be right a teeny tiny % of the time. Surely it seems reasonable to try 4d since there are many 3n bids by opener that will have a legitimate shot at 6d OR be perfectly safe in 4n. I do have sympathy for the pass over 3n at MP where 5d seems like a yuck choice.

That is one of the most interesting ways to make a case for the ==above thought bears repeating== I have ever seen:))))))))))

2s I see no reason to rush things. We are surely happy playing 5d so the opps will not easily outbid us and we may find the bidding has taken a VERY favorable turn if the opps continue to bid. If p is sitting all over lho we may end up with a very nice penalty. Sit back relax and enjoy the bidding as it unfolds but keep your trigger finger ready just in case a clear shot appears and x marks the spot:)

Difficult to imagine a hand where p bids 4d and it is right for us to bid further. 3d had to be PJR (if that was possible given the info given on they avatar box).

hand 1 really needs p to hold at least 4 spades to make 4s a plausible game so opening 1c seems like the way to go there. Hand 2 essentially needs nothing more than xxx in spades to give us a good game chance so it is entirely too risky to open 1c. Much better and safer to open 2c show spades and settle for clubs if no spade fit.

An opp having 5 spades is a threat so before proceeding we need to decide if catering to an opp having 5 spades is more dangerous than trying to play for the suit to break 42 or 33. It is indeed possible for either opp the hold 5 spades and if it is LHO the odds of a void have increased dramatically. Since the bidding has left us with no? clue about which suit an opp can be void in we must use the only piece of evidence available and return to hand with a heart since at the very least we know rho is not void in hearts due to no lightner double (nige1). The fact that there was no lightner double from the hand most likely to hold the long spades makes playing in a fashion to cater to a 51 split safer than trying for 42 or 33. If rho indeed began with xxx void xxxxx xxxxx and PASSED I will stand up and applaud them and make certain they get their name in print somewhere for such far sighted thinking (and then I will bow out from this level of competition because frankly that is just too good)

Our gadget has us well placed over the rest of the field. That means we should take advantage of this fact and bid a simple 4c We do not care if it survives. We are letting p know we have an invitational hand and clubs is our suit. I read somewhere that P generally knows more about their hand than we do so we supply them with information and let them decide how best to use that information. Sometimes its an easy game:) I am not all that optimistic we will make 5c even opposite a max but for sure our side will be much better prepared on how to proceed if the opps continue competing. If perchance p gets to 5c and goes off 1 x that is still less than letting the opps play and make 3d:)

MP is a game of MANY razor thin decisions. The deck looks to be about evenly split and if the opps are in a 8 card fit they are at the right level but most likely in trouble with their suit splitting 50. We do not have a decent opening lead so that is a strike against us but a low spade hardly looks gross. AT MP it seems pass originally and x has the best chance overall of being a MP winner. While at IMPS pass and pass since the downside of the opps making 2hx is horrific while at MP it is only 1 board. Backing into this auction with 3c is just looking for trouble at these colors. We have no reason to suspect p has ANY clubs much less a fit and we could be turning a perfectly normal board into an unmitgated slaughter. Not even sure what the upside of 3c is when our hand surely thinks we are better off with the opps playing 2h.

One of the easier 2h overcalls I have ever seen and one of the easier pass over opps 2s I have ever seen. Takes not much from p to score up 4h and we will never know if it is reasonable once we pass over 1s. If p can make a neg double over 2s I will try to reign in the blood lust as i pass. It is very unlikely our side belongs in 3c/d but it is quite possible the opps may have a fit there. The 2h overcall makes finding a minor suit fit for them very difficult.