Gweny

:P Guys I know you love to sit up late into the night and find new flaws in the ACBL program here on BBO. However here is the problem. Lag does occur - regardless of connection type. Lets say you Dr. Todd are holding 18 hcp and your p opens 1 nt. You are happy because you are going to have a fun and interesting auction to find the right spot. About that time you click your bid and get a little annoyed that opp is not passing/bidding. Then the td comes to the table and suddenly your chat window starts rolling by at a high rate of speed and the last 2 lines are something from the td about removing you. You have just been lagged. In Face to face it is always going to be more clear when someone is huddling/hesitating/coffee housing or what ever other name you want to call it. Online it is not. You, your opps, your partner, the td, or the bbo system itself all could be having delays that are not caused by anyone and you have not one bit of control over it. It is frequently the case that a player will call us to the table and complain of how slow the opps are when it is them that is lagging. We have no method of determining who is at fault. It has been our policy from the start that we cannot prove it therefore cannot penalize for it. We have not published this policy because we really do not like it but until we have a means of determining who is or is not lagging we cannot properly address the issue of hesitations. Am I happy that you are bringing this up? - no not really and for obvious reasons we do not want to encourage people to do hesitations/etc.

:huh: Dear pigpenz you have nailed it! This particular forum started out as a forum for people WHO DIRECT tournaments in BBO. It did not take long before the harsh and non constructive comments of some chased 99% of the people that could have benefited greatly from having a forum to discuss rulings, procedures and software to improve td-ing in BBO. I greatly admire Jilly for sticking with it in here - most of us stopped because of the amount of non constructive yap yap we would get from the non td-ing experts if we were foolish enough to show our "ignorance" in this forum. I suspect you are right about an ACBL forum and until we can figure out a way to make it a forum for the people who DO play there then acbl@bridgebase.com, or gweny@bridgebase.com will have to do for now. As for one of the previous posters that suggested that mailing things to acbl@bbo was just "wrong" if I was the td about whom the player was complaining since I would be the one reading the email - this is also just "wrong" on several levels. First it makes a false assumption that I am the only one reading the mail. Second it makes another serious error in assuming that I would rather round file something than look for a way to improve my ACBL directing skills. I have no illusions about directing ACBL games in BBO. I am pretty sure that most club tds do not look out over their tournaments and see people who are peers of Fred sitting in their games on a daily basis. When I see such players in tournaments I am directing I take a deep breath and immediately scan the lobby to see who is available to consult if I have to make a ruling involving people who CAN and DO play and win in national and international events. Thank you very much to my mentors who come to my aid on a sticky hand or ruling question. Perhaps there are arrogant demigods that assume they have the solution to every single ruling that will come up in the course of an ACBL tournament but it is not me nor any other td on the ACBL team. Since I/we know I/we am not perfect, and have not one spec of ego involved in defending a ruling I/we am happy to get feedback if I/we screw up - that is how you learn new things and improve your skills. Moreover, we take our jobs very seriously. We owe it to Fred, our customers, and friends that play in the games we direct to do the best we can. We do not like seeing bad rulings but we all know they can and will happen. We want to learn from the experience and hopefully not repeat a transgression.

The main problem is incomplete/inaccurate FDs. Yes there is a system overview in FD and there is not one in the "old" cc but often the fd overview is not filled out or is not clear to mere mortals what is being said. As we all know the name of a bid is not an explaination. The alert box is where people look for alerts. they click on it and query bids. The fd card does give explainations but that does not relieve the user from clicking ALERT when making a bid because the fd card does not highlight ALERT when an alertable bid is made. I know it is hard to understand that some people could not see a FD explaination but it does happen.

Dear HR, The problem is very simple - we have fits getting the majority of the population to post any convention card let alone one that needs a degree in computer science from MIT and twenty five pages of manuel. <kidding> Most have a hard enough time filling out the "old" one let alone the "new" one. It is a very true case that the majority of our players are not that sophisticated/not sophisticated enough computer types to fill out a full disclosure card. I have asked for a convention card wizard or perhaps a better thing would be a convention card room, much like the partnership bidding room where two partners could sit down and hack out a card. What would be wonderful would be a pre-tournament "room" that would seat the partners and they could do nothing but work up their convention card - both could "see" it and in real time click buttons to fill it. There would also be a choice once seated as to who is doing the filling in. As soon as card was filled it is autosaved and put in use for that tournament. This could maybe happen when the partnership was formed or do it all at the same time when a tournament started For the ACBL application it would greatly help our ACBL community if the convention card physically looked like the ACBL convention card. <see teaching old dogs new tricks> Until FD is more non computer literate friendly it is not going to be widely accepted/used. It is a lovely tool I agree but it is used in the minority not the majority and until that changes our policy will remain the same.

Our policy from the start on the Full Disclosure card is that you STILL must alert your bids via the alert box. Partially this is/was because of incorrect/incomplete FD cards that do not match what players were playing leading to unintentional misinformation. Using the alert box eliminates this problem.

Yes we DO want to educate people. The other statement is intended for a entire different sort of participant. I am refering to people who already know how to play but do not uphold these same thoughts about just having 12 boards of interesting and fun play. Instead they want to give lessons, act arrogant to just about everyone and steal the joy from both partner(s) and opps. Those are the ones that statement was is intended for.

;) Once again Fred you have proven that you are the class of any field. ACBL tds constantly review and discuss problem hands with fellow tds to improve the skills of the junior members of the team. We are very proud to have an ACBL stable that has such depth and wealth of experience in directing at the National and Regional level in addition to long-time online tds that specialize in online directing. We always appreciate your help in improving our skills and bringing to our attention any potential flawed rulings so the team can discuss and learn from the event. If you have any concerns about a td please feel free to write to ACBL@bridgebase.com or contact me personally at Gweny@bridgebase.com. The range of players that play in ACBL on BBO games is truely amazing. It challenges the tds to wear a silk glove as we nurture our new-to-ACBL players as we educating them on the rules of ACBL play while still responding to the needs of our long-time ACBL members. Our goal is tournaments that everyone from the rank beginner to world class player can enjoy - we want you to go away smiling after 12 boards of good bridge with other like minded pairs/individuals. If you have misconceptions about the spirit of these games you are kindly directed to seek playing opportunities elsewhere. As always we appreciate your thoughts on ways to improve our schedule of games and suggestions for new games. As our ACBL community grows we will probably want to consider a face to face convention/tournament so we can put faces to the names we now call friends or respected competitors. What say you? Regards, Gweny

:lol: Welcome to BBO! I agree BIL is wonderful and so is WP lounge but do not over look Total Points Tournaments under Public Clubs link (Play Bridge----Public Clubs----Total Points) Tournaments are friendly and fun and start at 12pm, 3pm, 6pm, 9pm and 12am - just join TD table and ask for a partner. :-) Other beginner/intermediate tournaemnts include ACBL 299ers - it is at 8pm eastern each day but you need to put your ACBL number on record with BBO to play. Let me know if I can help... (Gweny@bridgebase.com)

:lol: Bendare Dear lady - you have completely encapsulated one of our major concerns - educating new players. I will, however, point out that most of the time it is not that they do not want to follow rules, just that they have not learn them yet. That is where you come in and every other ACBL member that does know how to play tennis with rackets. It is you and other experienced ACBL members who will help us foster and grow this new generation/group of ACBL members. We (ACBL on BBO) need your help and appreciate that you care enough TO call td - we WANT those calls because without them we cannot know that there is a problem and cannot educate our new ACBL players about proper procedures like alerts, claiming, agreements, etc. As far as size of tournaments our tds are not alone in large games. There is always at least one back-up td on hand to help. We did this so that we CAN better serve you. Please remember we ARE a relatively new club (our 2nd birthday is 7 June) and as we grow we will improve our methods of integrating/educating new players. One of our first steps in this direction is when we start offering 299er games. At present these games are small but in many ways that is an advantage because td can better moniter behaviors and make sure that players are following the rules as well as helping them learn mechanics such as posting convention cards, etc. As to how we distinguish between deliberate naughty and unknowing beginner/intermediate that is a function of being a td and knowing our players - which we do. As you point out we have very large audience but still we can recognize new players and those who are unfamilar with BBO interface. But again, we cannot do anything about something we are not aware of - the ONLY way to solve some problem is for you to let us know - we WANT you to call us so we can improve everyones playing experience. And yes please DO check skill level of people you play - remember when you start playing? Can you remember a time when you did not know terms and conventions and how someone taugh you these things? We KNOW that many of the people who play in ACBL games earn their first ACBL masterpoints here in BBO and because of that we warn first, make note in profile, and if they repeat that mistake they will get penalty. However in some cases we are constrain by certain problems - mainly that often to penalize your opp we are forced to cap your board to at best 60% (average +) So in some cases penalizing your opp will result in more damage to you than to them. In cases like this we often forgo penalty because it will damage you. Please do know that we appreciate your help and welcome your comments and suggestions. You are welcome to write to us anytime at ACBL@bridgebase.com with any suggestions/comments.

:lol: Next - Officeglen Clearly you are very well educated and have a very superior knowledge of ACBL and bridge in general, and I am sure that your intent is only to improve ACBL games here on BBO. I will tell you that there is ALWAYS ongoing education and efforts to improve our directing skills. We are blessed with two national tds and they, along with others (like Fred) provide guidance when sticky situtations arise. Are we going to post our internal communications with you or with this forum? Absolutely not. There is no upside and considerable downside to making public what we discuss in private. You are maybe surprise by this but even BBO ACBL tds have feelings. Do tds make every effort to get it right? Of course they do! Do you honestly believe that anyone likes to appear foolish? We are all human and in the heat of battle yes mistakes will happen. When they do we discuss them and use them as learning tool so that we might avoid that problem in the future. Will ACBL TDs reply here? Very unlikely and if they did it will be as private person instead of rendering opinion as ACBL (on BBO.) Is there any rule or policy that prevents them from doing so? Of course not but in general it is me, Uday and or Fred that answers questions concerning ACBL on BBO. Tds render opinions in games they direct and as much as possible we try to keep it consistent so that all ACBL tds rule the same way. This way people know what to expect. Hrothgar get it right (as he most always does) and the sooner people accept that online bridge IS different than face to face bridge the happier everyone will be. Please consider that there are people playing every day who never once experience face to face bridge yet they have grown to love this game so much that I think Fred/Uday need to start selling groceries online so BBO bridge addicts do not starve. (Hi, My name is Gweny and I am a BBO bridgealholic... giggle) In online bridge there are things that we cannot do - for example an announcement. In online bridge if someone does an announcement in public chat it is basically unauthorized information and you can guess what happens next. If something is an announcement with current software environment on BBO we either it is treat as an alert or nothing at all. Which do you prefer? As far as psyches are concerned... for the record it is me/ACBL who come to you and privately ask you to restrain yourself or we are maybe going to have issues, NOT one of our ACBL TD. Why you want to claim this is some "new" rule is something only you know - it is clear from other thread that when psyches are part of a partnership agreement they are illegal in ACBL games. Inquiry did research on this topic and showed that you have a propensity to psych on some occasions. A warning from me is just that - I wanted you to know that we do pay attention and do not want to have a problem. That is all. Psychs ARE part of bridge and you have no idea how mad I am when I see nonsense like tournaments where they demand someone alert td that they are going to psych or worse that places like Total Points club "outlaw" psychs. My dear departed Baronreit is probably spinning in his grave at such things. As far as where to send comments, etc you send them to ACBL@Bridgebase.com, sending them anywhere else only delays response since abuse will then forward them to me/ACBL. Since this is on each tds profile and tds will happily tell anyone who asks where to write I do not think it is very hard to find proper outlet for your concerns/comments, etc. Are we perfect? of course not or we are not still here on earth. We are a new club and we will continue to improve and do our best to serve the needs of our customer. New and exciting games will come soon and hopefully you will enjoy them.

:lol: Greetings... lets take it from the top - Pigpenz - I send and resend and resent again and again trying to reply to you. If you like I can post those emails here since my frequent requests for you to fix your spam filter were not followed. For now I will put in header of my last try: From: "Gweny" <gweny@bridgebase.com> To: <xxx> Subject: Fw: 26 board acbl game Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 22:08:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01C58CAE.5E9F1810" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 Disposition-Notification-To: "Gweny" <gweny@bridgebase.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C58CAE.5E9F1810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gweny1=20 To: KJ King=20 Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 10:39 PM Subject: Re: 26 board acbl game ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Gweny" <gweny@bridgebase.com> To: "KJ King" <xxx> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 8:08 PM Subject: Re: trial 26 board game

:D in past I play in tournaments i direct and then come to realize that everyone - my partner, my opps, and others in my tournament are suffering because I am playing... So now if i want to play i limit it to like 8 tables, post it in description, and watch very close. I do think if td is going to play they may not get more than very small number of tables. However, in general, i think it is better idea that tds never play when they direct

:D oh yes please - this is old old request from tds... procedural penalty option please oh great BBO programmers

:( Welcome back McB!

Hi Andy, Yes we recently change 11am, 1pm, and 3pm from MP, IMP, and MP to IMP, MP and IMP respectively. There are no plans at this time to alternate format on daily basis since we alternate it every two hours already :-)

For first time you and me agree Hroth I am sick of tournament spam. I am sick of seeing same message over and over every 20-30 seconds for 15-20 mins while some tds promises us they are "starting soon" and then proceeds to extend start times again, and again, and yet again. I am sick of trying to help some new user only to get bombard by this senseless spamming while i scroll up madly trying to stay with new person and wondering if they even SEE my reply due to ad spam or from trying to hold conversation with someone and then constantly needing to scroll up again and again to find last message. Our ACBL Tds are following the following rules - If you see ANY ACBL TD violate this policy please feel free to leave me message so we can correct this error. I openly invite other pay tournament groups to stop this spam and join ACBL Tds in this policy - (defining an ad as not more than 3 lines) From 60-30 min prior to start - 1 ad every 10 minues MAXIMUM From 25-5 min prior to start - 1 ad every 5 mins MAXIMUM 1 ad at 3, 2,1 minutes prior to start MAXIMUM. Moreover ACBL TDs are suppose to include time to start.

:( In past Fun Fishy is TD playing tournament. I come to conclusion that with more than about 8-10 tables I cannot do very good job to my partner, my opps, and people who are playing. So I stop doing it in Fishy. When I want to play and no tournaments is available I make little Tee hee whee <how can any one doubt this is "just for fun" tournament?> B) but even with putting in description TD IS PLAYING and announcing to tournament "you must tell me what is problem when you make TD call" it is still little bit messy if people start booting or worse sticking/red dot. I personally think that over 10 tables with playing td is no no.

B) giggle or even better please DO visit TD101 page, read it, write for permission to direct and start directing tournaments :-) We can always use more good tds!

My question is "are undos allow in this tournament?" If undos are not allow then point is moot. If you are openly rude to td then I can understand him/her removing you. After all it is td who is providing tournament for you and trust me it is often very thankless job.

Thanks for noticing Slothy. !H I do not make threats. If I need to act I do. As I mention before, barring someone is never my first choice. This is why I warn (yes ece it is warning,) this id that Ece share with some other people. As per terms of agreement if offense occur then injure party is to send IMMEDIATE screen print to me. I get screen print so i must act. Frankly Ece, why do you not send screen print(s) if all this violations happen? You know very well I cannot act without immediate screen print to validate misdeads by principals. This agreement is very explict - moderator can immediately bar what ever id is violating agreement. You know this. But instead of barring someone i send message to this id because i am aware that Topflight is using some "new" people to direct tournaments. (I am defining new as someone who not directing for topflight wen this agreement take place.) I give you benefit of doubt because I think maybe this "new" people are not aware they cannot kib certain other parties while "wearing" this particular id. I am sorry you cannot see that I am trying to avoid barring someone rather than some machavellian plot to threaten/abuse you. Moreover this is FIRST screen print I get from any of you - which is why I take action. Telling other yellows do not meet requirements for reporting violation of this agreement. Therefore, no violation happen. No screen print - no violation. You are well aware of terms of this agreement, penalties for violating it, and requirements to prove some violation take place. Send me immediate screen print then i can act.

Well, I do not speak until now. And I will make no attempt to sway anyone in their opinion of my acts. I will make 2 points. I leave message, as courtsey, for id who is involve in agreement, who is in violation of this agreement. It is share id and i do not know who log in on it, nor do i care. I am only concern with violation of agreement by one of principals since I am person who is responsible to oversee this agreement. I at NO TIME cancel ANY Topflight, friends of topflight or any other tournament relate to topflight. Occasionally I DO get desparate calls from pitiful users trap in some team game or tournametn where td is desert and majority of players is missing. Want to see example of one I cancel? Click this link. What action do you take? You Decide - Do you cancel this tournament? As far as how I act and whether or not I act inappropriately in yellow name... if you think i do then imo there is little i can do to change your mind. If you feel like i do please DO write to abuse. I, like my other fellow yellows, do my best to remain impartial and act in bbos best interests. If you do naughty things yes i will immediately enact what ever action seems most appropriate at time. I care not what your name is or who your friends are - if you violate rules of this site, or any agreements in place with management, i CAN and WILL bar you if you break our rules. I prefer to never bar anyone. I come here to play bridge and celebrate our diversity and all great people who make up BBO Community. You may not like me personally, and you may not agree with each and every decision I make but I can assure you it is not personal and given my favorite choice I never need to bar anyone. Unfortunately naughty people do exist. Some think that because it is acceptable to speak certain way at other sites, (like yahoo, pogo, etc,) that it is ok here at BBO to abuse fellow users and they get very rude awakening at BBO. We are here to play bridge. If you act like ladies and gentlemen you will never see "contact abuse" when you attempt to log in. :-) I think this is rather simple rule who is easy to live with and by.

My policy is simple for Fishy... time permitting I ask sub if they are willing to let original partner back in providing that original return in timely fashion and sub agree. There are times when I will NOT return original - like if they boot more than 1 time then sub is staying. I do make every effort to immediately sub gracious sub back into game. In ACBLs where it is pay tournament our policy is very clear cut Remaining parter can wait for 3 min and during this time they can pick own sub. After 3 min then TD can sub at will. Original partner gets seat back if they return within 2 boards/15 mins. We politely thank sub and replace original since they pay to play in this tournament. But we only replace back 1 time per tournament.

:rolleyes: Yes we just start offering "dual" tournaments at 11 am and 1pm. We did this so people who like to play indi's can still play and pairs can enter other one. We are considering doing same thing at 5pm since there is no late game indi.

:) Thanks Epee! :-) and just so you all can relax... psyches are allow but we do keep notes on who is psyching and with whom they are playing so if it becomes pattern that player xyz uses this tools abundently with same partner then we can and will take appropriate action.

WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I do know know who tell you this epeeist but this is NOT what td is suppose to tell you. Our macros for start of tournament are all approve by ACBL. Please contact me with TDs name so I can let this person know this is error. Thanks, Gweny/ACBL Coodinator