TWO4BRIDGE

I won't post a problem in the Expert Forum anymore. Apparently it is reserved for "Experts Only" to initiate posts as well as reply to them. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Expert-Class Bridge Forum designated for expert bridge players to discuss more advanced topics. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I used to think it was good to post here to assure an "expert opinion"..... But by their reaction, these experts seem be insulted if a non-expert posts a problem here.

One more question on this unusual hand . Let's say 1C open; xyz ; 3S is natural, but what about 4D! by Responder ( over 3S ) ?? : 1C - 1H 1S - 3H! ( xyz ; GF, slam try in ♥, stronger than going thru 2D; but does not set ♥ as trumps ) 3S ( natural ) - 4D! ( is this a cue for ♥ or ♠ as trump ? )

Excellent point about using xyz. So, how do you think the auction would continue ? We are now in a GF situation and ♥ are definitely in the picture; so, we can put to rest the notion that a high level ♥ bid is anything else but the final trump suit. Questions: Does 3H "set trumps" and demand cuebids ? Thus, if Opener rebid ♠ ( 3S ); would this be a cue bid and NOT be shape-showing ? 3S - 4NT ( would this then be RKC for Hts and not ♠ ? ) 3S - 5C ( Would this be Exclusion-RKC for ♥ ? ) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - If 3S were a cue bid and 5C! = Exclusion , then 7H is imminent !

Remember when I said "Anything is better than Jacoby2NT ". I was wrong. 3NT is worse.

I was thinking the same thing. It worked here ( for 7H ) because ALL key cards were found. But what if one is missing ? What if South had: [ changed it to a 'real' 1S opener ] ♠ K J 10 8 x x ♥ J ♦ x ♣ A K J x x 1S - 4NT 5H ( 2 - ♠ Q ) - 6H ( Is this "to play" or "3rd Rnd Ctrl-ask " ? ) 7S ( yes, have 3rd Rnd Ctrl in ♥)

1D - 2C! ( GF ) 2D = 1st priority is to show 5+♦suit; does not deny 4 card Major; strength unknown ( as you say, plenty of room to find a 4-4 Major fit ) . 1D - 2C! 2M = 4 cards M; denies 5 cards ♦; denies reverse SHAPE ( the exception is the rare 5M/6d hand where Opener will make a 2nd M bid ); strength unknown 1D - 2C! 2NT = denies 5 cards ♦; denies 4 cards M; denies 4 cards ♣ [ must be 3 3 4 3 ] .

In answer to your question: Opener is now in search of the best spot -- 1st priority to find a 4-4 Major fit if one exists - - regardless of strength. For the above auction where 2C! = GF, it does NOT deny a 4 card major. The entire 2-level is available to search for a 4-4 Major fit. Opener's rebid: 2H would show 4 cards ♥ and could have 4 cards ♠ as well. 2S = 4 cards ♠ and denies 4 cards ♥. If a Major fit is found, it will be at the 3-level with Responder's bid. Then Cuebidding and Serious ( or non--serious ) 3NT by Opener could show extras ( or not ) . If NO Major fit is found, Opener w/extras can bid 4NT ( Quant ) over 3NT .

@ pigpenz 2NT open ( 20, 21 ) .... will 3NT play better than 4M ? I wonder what the simulation results might be for a 2NT open and a 3NT! ( 3 4 3 3 ) super-accept: Responder Hand: x x x K Q J x x J x x x x 2NT - 3D! 3NT! - ??

I agree

This happened last night. Not sure if you would call the attempted sacrifice a "brain freeze" or just "not a good idea" : I decided on a 4H opening preempt: [hv=pc=n&s=s98753hdkqj85ct94&w=shakjt8752d94cq86&n=sj64hq9da763ckj73&e=sakqt2h643dt2ca52&d=w&v=e&b=16&a=4hpp4sppdppp]399|300[/hv] ♥A lead which South ruffed. ( Theoretically, this could be the only trick for Declarer ) Low ♠to the J, won by East. But Declarer got 2 tricks for - 8 X or - 2000 for - 14.5 IMPs

If playing 2/1 GF, then both of the openers below will make a standard rebid of 2S after 1H - 2C( or 2D ) : 1) ♠ Q x x x ♥ A K J x x ♦ Q x ♣ x x 2) ♠ A K Q x ♥ A K J x x ♦ x x ♣ x x

South is a passed hand, so North is taking a chance on even finding partner with 2 bullets needed to make 5C. North knows his partner is short in ♠ from his holding and opps' bidding ♠, but he is not sure of a void.

I think the safest is for Opener to play in 5C . So, use whatever system you have to get Opener to bid Clubs first. If in 3NT, there is a good possibility that Opener may be locked out of dummy's ♣ .

@ Zel Does this sequence qualify for your other system where the 4D bid ( over 3NT ) now "asks" Opener : 4H! = 1st step, negative next 4 steps are RKC replies: 4S = 0/3 4NT = 1/4 5C = 2 - ♦Q 5D = 2 + ♦Q I think Opener with his 10 point holding ( nice as it is ) may be reluctant to bid anything other than 4H! ( negative ). If he had as little as an honor-x doubleton ♦ or even a stiff high honor, he night go forward.

With a minimum ( or sub-minimum ) 5-5 in the blacks, you can open 1C ( with prior agreement on follow-ups ): 1C - 1 red ( 1D ) 1S - other red! ( 2H! ) = 4th suit GF ?? .. 2S = minimum 5-5 .. 3S jump = 5s/6c, a hand worthy of reverse strength and shape . After 2S and knowing about your 2 suits, your partner may well place the contract in 3NT. If he bids 3D, you bid 3NT .

If we don't know for sure whether partner has 3, 4 or 5 cards ♣, I think you have to ask for both Queens: ... ask for the ♠Q first with 5S....and if he has it, then ask for the ♣next . If he has that one too, then ...you can count to 13 tricks with either shape: A ) If 4 3 2 4 or 4 3 3 3, then his 4D! cue was the ♦K : 3s, 5h, 2d, 3c = 13 tricks B) If 4 3 1 5, then the 4D! cue was singleton : 3s, 5h, 1d, 5c = 14 tricks But you would be miss bidding the grand if he denies the ♠Q: ... The grand would NOT be there with hand A, but ... The 13 tricks would still be there with hand B : 2s, 5h, 1d, 5c - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - And in all cases, we are assuming 3-2 splits ( or useful J ) in ♥ and ♣.

oooops... I missed the 5s/4h situations. I'm with Zel.... I don't think you want Opener with 5s/4h... Hold it to a max of 4 cards Spades.

I think your simulation shows the great value of the 2NT! super-accept ( w/ 3 4 3 3 ). I know most just use the 3M-jump to super-accept, but I have a feeling that the "worthless doubleton" is also an important game "decider" .

I think his study is definitely interesting and I think correct. With Opener's 3 4 3 3 you can never get more than 5 Ht tricks. There is no available 6th trump trick via a ruff . You will be essentially playing NT anyway. The legitimate concern of course is unprotected suits, but as I said before, I would think the chances for 9 tricks here is better than for 10.... even if ♠ were Q x x and ♣ were x x .

I'd have some concern making 2NT, but I think chances for 9 tricks at 3NT is better than 10 in 4H .

Back in February this was answered by phil_20686 in this thread : http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/51109-should-we-be-in-slam/page__st__20 He said: " I think its fairly standard if you play normal Stayman , that bidding the other major should show a slam try in partners major. " So, 2NT - 3C 3H - 3S! = artificial slam try, agreeing ♥ I suppose here it could continue with some cuebidding or a Serious 3NT! : 3NT! - 4C ( cue ) 4S! ( kickback ) - 5C ( 1/4 ) 5D ( ♥Q-ask ) - 6C ( ♥Q + ♣K ) ?? No way to ask about side-suit Queens; any further "ask" would be for an outside King . 6H ( can't count to a sure 13 tricks )

Thanks.... that did it .

' The emperor's new clothes ' .... Am I the only one who does not see the hands ?

1 ) I assume 3S ostensibly is showing 5h/4s GF, but as you say, not slammish 2 ) 3NT denies 3h and denies 4s 3 ) 4H must be showing 6h/4s 4 ) Surely, Opener has not found another Sp somewhere, so any RKC-asking bid should be for ♥. If you play kickbak, then RKC should be 4S!, but maybe Opener thought that would be "to play" in a Moysian fit, so he bid 4NT as RKC for ♥ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If it went via the 3D! route instead, then Spades would not have been mentioned as a suit and clearly 4S! would have been kickback [ a 4-4 fit is still in the picture using 3D! ] : 1D - 1H 2NT - 3D! ?? .. 3S = 1st priority : 4 cards Sp, but may have 3 cards Hts .. 3H = 2nd priority: 3 cards Hts, but no 4 cards Sp ...3NT = denies 3h and denies 4s ) After: 3NT - 4H ( 6+ cards Hts ) 4S! ( kickback - RKC for ♥ )

In your other thread, you said you now include the Wolff Sign-off. Thus, 3D! would be a GF, asking for the Majors. So... what does the direct 3S rebid show ?