wyman

Ah, the fodder for so many post-mortems :)

Geez, and here I thought my thread was just an open letter to beginners in hopes that they would keep asking questions :)

Bumping this with another auction that I think should be penalty because I can't for the life of me think of a hand that wants this to be takeout, but it's a slightly different flavor from the others: (P) 1C (P) P (X) 1N (3H) P (P) X (1) Does anyone disagree that this is penalty? (2) Does anyone care to fashion a meta-rule that would cover this. Does this really count as "our side rebid 1N," Andy? [i'm not sure I agree with that in general, but I'm not sure I disagree either.]

He will if you are on the same page about doubling with a 2-suiter. I would pass 4C and hope for the best. Yes, there's a chance this is wrong.

pard can also bid 3N, which may work out well.

I don't think X & bid when we're at the 4 level shows extra strength like it does at the 1 level. We've been preempted. Double shows a flexible hand. Double and 4H over 4D says "nope, not diamonds."

Just to be clear, my post, which happened to express the opinion that we could do with a "total newbie" forum, was primarily intended to encourage beginner lurkers (who might be offput by the level of advice in B/I) to go ahead and post anyway. I was not intending to start a "let's split up the forums" wagon, even if I'd support such an endeavor.

Just to be clear, my post, which happened to express the opinion that we could do with a "total newbie" forum, was primarily intended to encourage beginner lurkers (who might be offput by the level of advice in B/I) to go ahead and post anyway.

I'm extracting this from a discussion in a B/I thread where a newbie was disenchanted at the level of advice being offered, stemming from a complaint that posts were not really targeted at beginners and that maybe a beginner's forum would be appropriate, especially as we grow. I think there's definitely room for a "total newbie" forum. The problem with B/I is that it's everything sub-A/E. Having seen what people chase out of A/E (which I think is fair, as there are some excellent posters and bridge players, and they should be able to talk seriously about difficult topics), I think that "not A/E" is way too broad of a range for one sub-forum. A/E (and other) posters calibrate their responses in B/I to the level of whoever is posting, often. So when the B/I regs, who are far closer to I/A in many cases, comprise most of the questions, they get responses that lean toward that I/A boundary. Answers include "oh, that's why we play kickback or Gazilli or super muppet stayman or ...," and those are typically helpful to the OPs (and if not, hopefully the OPs pipe up or read up and do end up benefitting). When we get people that don't know a lot about I/A bridge -- true beginners -- the I/A/E posters need to flip that switch on for their responses. For the most part, I think they succeed and are very good at this. The real problem is when we get beginner lurkers -- that is, readers but non-posters -- in the B/I forum. It is a good idea in general to lurk for awhile before posting so that you understand the etiquette and overall community feel -- learn how we format hands, learn the jargon and abbreviations that tend to be used, etc. However, beginner lurkers are usually reading the B/I forums, where most posts are I/A questions and responses targeted toward I/A posters. These responses are far above the true beginner level. While I think a true beginner forum would be best (with B/I then transitioning to a forum for those trying to earn their 'A' stripes), in the meantime I have the following recommendation for beginners: Post questions when you don't understand. It's as simple as that. Please, if you see someone post a question that you're interested in, and if it gets a lot of responses that aren't helpful TO YOU, do keep in mind that those responses might have been helpful to someone, but post a new thread with a similar (or the same) question. Post what you understand from the last thread and what you don't. Post that you're a real beginner. Start your title with "(Beginner)", so that potential responders know how to gear their responses. I think this will be far more helpful to you than jumping in a thread with 10 I/A responses and having everyone try to break down their responses, while people are still trying to answer OP, and debating, and arguing about whether or not post #7 was appropriate for B/I, and ... Just make your own thread. This is a wonderful community, and posters are almost always well-intentioned, even when they come across otherwise, so please be patient while we try to understand you, what you know, what you don't know, etc. You'll be answering those beginner questions and posting intermediate ones in no time. Welcome to the forums.

20-21 HCP, twice rebiddable hearts, 22 TP

GIB forum, Phil :)

POTY? http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/51769-master-points-the-laws-the-acbl-that-sort-of-thing/page__p__620279?do=findComment&comment=620279

I do this rarely, mostly 3rd in hand because it's easier than having LHO win and play immediately, seeing partner play, having declarer call from dummy over your objection, and having to explain to everyone that you'd like all the cards from the previous trick out please. Then there's "what do we do with these cards" issues, and it's just a gigantic mess, plus Bessie and Gertrude are flustered and snitty now, and it all could have been avoided. I agree that it's far better to play your card face up and think at the end of the trick, but in practice, this can be far easier in certain situations.

I bid 3N, and maybe my judgment is colored by playing against people that don't always get the defense right. A lot of things can go right: * Partner can have the Q or J of hearts (or stiff K) * LHO may decide to lead from a long or chunky side suit (I've seen weirder things happen) * LHO may underlead Qxx/Jxx, and they may not untangle it * LHO may have a stiff honor (give partner something like A / xxx / AKQJxxx / KQ, for example) In hindsight, I think 4C is right, and I don't find it that close. Competent opponents (and/or ones holding ♥AKQJxx) will usually get this right.

I thought bidding 1H with west, and then -- assuming west passed the first round -- bidding 3H as west, were both automatic at teams. Am I wildly off here?

i agree with gwnn and aguahombre as well tbh

This is pairs, right? We can solve this problem without even asking which lead is "better." Just ask: (1) Is this a normal auction [seems probable, unless opps play an unusual NT range] (2) Ok, then what will the field lead?

The old get-partner-barred-and-bid-3C trick might work best, but I'd be surprised if people are doing anything but passing here.

Partner made a penalty double and I have 4 trumps. And we're at favorable. I'm happy to sit for this at any scoring. It's much more of a problem r/w. But I'll still sit.

3♠ for me on both as well.

So, at the table, I played SK, SA and lefty showed up with Jx. I played 2 more rounds of spades, and lefty pitched two low hearts in tempo. So I decided to play LHO for Jx Kxxx Kx Axxxx by exiting a club. [in hindsight this is terrible, of course. If LHO holds that, I can now play a diamond to the ace, heart to the Q, ace of hearts dropping the jack, and 10 of hearts for the contract, which wins on additional holdings as well.] The heart king was off, so it didn't matter. But yeah, the percentage play here was not at all clear to me. Thanks for the input.

bump for results [and yes, i know it's irrelevant, but still...]

bump for results?

These both look like normal 1M-3M hands to me, but I'm not very imaginative.

Phil, I definitely appreciate the replies. Maybe we can take the discussion of followups to 2C to a new thread [i didn't mean for my one silly example auction to be such a distraction], because I'd really like to get back to the initial question: When is a new suit at the 4-level a cuebid (other than when suit agreement is already established)?