effervesce

Thanks for that irdoz - I dont suppose you know what the sample size was? Interesting to see the 10-12 come up on top - especially at IMPs. It would be even more interesting to see what the 10-12 gets at different vulnerabilities. Of course, these numbers have to be taken with a holistic view in the bidding system it's used in, as the NT ranges affect basically everything else in it. Anyone have a frequency analysis of the different ranges? It's all nice and dandy to have a bid which gets +5 imps everytime it comes up, but if it come up once in a blue moon....

Nice calculation, but the in-quick out-quick nature of the mini-roman seems to make bidding decisions easier. Surely the bidding is greatly simplified for the 4414 hand with the 2D bid than having to open it as a nebulous 1C.

Having _too_ many differences between the bidding/play of the two pairs could be a bad thing. For example, if one pair bids to 3H, the other bidding to 4H, while the 3H pair takes the trump finesse in one direction and the 4H pair in the OTHER direction, BOTH can go down!! Thus, if 4H is the EXPECTED contract, you should only have the difference in the choice of finesse. If, on the other hand, it is possible either 3H or 4H is right, have one in 3H, the other 4H, BUT BOTH PLAY THE SAME WAY.

Obvious pass. 2C in a precision system. 3C is only for a 3rd seat bid where anything goes.

Why have two separate bids for 5H-4S and 4H-5S? That's just inefficient use of an opening bid. Many players have used a weak bid with 4+/4+ majors, opening it 2C, 2D, or 2H. My preference if using it is to open it as 2H to prevent the opponents having a free double. My 2H structure: Any major bid is to play After 2H - 2NT (relay) 3C = minimum 5-4 / 4-5 3D asks for longer major 3H = 3D = min, 4-4 3H = max, 5 hearts, 4 spades 3S = max, 5 spades 4 hearts 3NT = max, 4-4 4C/4D = splinter, 5-5, good hand 4H = 5-5, poor hand 2H - 3C/3D are to play.

Okay, here are the 1D notes I've come up with for our own system, based on Adam's notes (they're a tad simpler though) adjusted for our 1NT range openings in the different seats (11-13 1st/2nd, 14-16 3rd/4th) - please hit me on the head if I've made any obvious omission 1D - 1H 1S = unbalanced, may have longer minor 1NT = 14-15, bal/semibal <4 hearts for 1st/2nd 1D opener, 11-13 3rd/4th 2C = 5+/4+ minors either way 2D = good heart raise (typically 14-15 bal/semibal 1st/2nd, 14-15 semibal/11-13 unbal 3rd/4th) 2H = poor heart raise (typically 11-13 unbal 1st/2nd, 11-13 bal/semibal 3rd/4th) 2S = splinter, max 2NT = club splinter, max 3C = not a dog minimum, 6-5/5-6 minors 3D = diamond splinter 3H = forcing to game unless 1H response was sub-minimum 1D-1S 1NT = 14-15 bal/semibal, <4 spades 2C = 5+/4+ minors either way or 1435 or 3 suited short spades 2D = 5 diamonds, 4 hearts 2H = good spade raise (typically 14-15 balanced/semibalanced 1st/2nd, 11-13 unbal or 14-15 semibal 3rd/4th) 2S = poor spade raise (typically 11-13, unbalanced 1st/2nd, 11-13 bal/semibal 3rd/4th) 2NT = club splinter, max 3C = 6-5/5-6 minors, not a dog minimum 3D = diamond splinter 3H = heart splinter 3S = forcing to game unless responder has sub-minimum

I recently read chunks of Revision Club (from Daniel Neill's system page) and I liked more than a few ideas it uses. 1M-2M as a balanced (10-12) 3card invitational raise, after which for 1H-2H for example 2S starts a long-suit trial sequence, 2NT,3C,3D as short-suit trials in spades,clubs and diamonds respectively. Hands that would normally be bid 1H-2H instead go via 1H-1NT-2m-2H - this presumably inhibits competition/balancing with relatively small downsides in a limited opening context. Has anybody played this? It seems to be very useful with large possible gains in a) not being in 3H and going down on some hands B) more space for constructive bidding 1H-1S-1NT etc as omnibus 1NT - could be 1543/1534 shapes - I currently never rebid 1NT unless I'm at least semi-balanced. Winning or a losing bid? 1D/1H/1S - new suit 1 lvl as down to zero points. John Montgomery reckons this is winning- 'Shape Is King', especially in a strong club context, making it difficult for the opponents while unlikely to be hanged by opener. Thoughts/experiences?

Are you really allowed to go look at the score on the 4D card? Doesn't that potentially convey information to your partner about the contract making/not making? For the same reason I thought it was illegal as dummy to read the opponent's convention card, as that might suggest to declarer to also look at it.

Pass first round then bid 3D in passout seat - an immediate 3D shouldnt be a minimum hand imho.

Open with east's hand (we play precision) - playing standard, pass with both.

Make the hand 4-4 in the majors = yes if you and partner are playing garbage stayman due to the (off the top of my head) 50% chance of reaching a 4-4 major split. On the hand given? No. Its often better to play with the field than anti-field at MPs.

Hi Ian, I agree totally with you and others about random bridge games. Playing with people you know/having a regular partner is very useful. There's many sydney players who play together quite often online - my nickname's effervesce (as you may just possibly have guessed) - give me a buzz, I hate kibitzing when I prefer to be playing. I kibitz when I dont have anybody I know to play with - playing with randoms is no fun.

Thanks awm, that 2D structure looks pretty neat. So the 6D-4M hands are opened 2D instead of 1D in your system. Thus an opening of 1D denies such a hand- so the 1D opening guarantees one of the following 1) diamond-club two suiter 2) any three-suiter (without 5M) 3) 5C + 4M/ 5D + 4M 4) Balanced hand, the other NT range. (14-16 1st/2nd - possibly 11-13 3rd/4th or is that a bad idea?). while all 6 carder minor openers are opened 2m. So during the bidding, 1D - 1H - 2C shows a two-suited hand with clubs and diamonds? Can this be clubs and spades? Or with all 5 clubs 4 spades it goes 1D-1H-1S?

Due to most people on this forum preferring 2C as a 6+ club suit and 2D as a 6+ diamond suit in the context of a strong club system, with 1D as the catch-all, how do the followups change? Here's my first guess (any suggestions/what you play would be great!) 2C - 2D inv+ 2H/2S 4 card suit, min 2NT clubs only, 2 outside stop (3D stop asking) 3C clubs only, 1 outside stop (3D stop asking) 3D = 4 diamonds, min 3H/3S 4 card suit, max 3NT = 4 diamonds, max Or is it preferable, instead of showing strength to keep the bidding low to allow shape relaying, with 2H/2S as 4 card suits, allowing us to keep relays, and 2NT as the club-singlesuiter? For the 2D opening, 6+ diamonds intermediate, just natural responses? The 6 diamonds+4 card majors are opened 1D? The openings we're probably going to change to are 1C = 16+ 1D = 11-15, 0+ diamonds 1H = 11-15, 5+ 1S = 11-15, 5+ 1NT = 11-13/14-16 1st-2nd/3rd-4th 2C = 11-15 6+ 2D = 11-15 6+ 2H/2S = wk twos 2NT = minors weak

Yes, we could easily convert to that sort of system by making 1NT say 14-16 balanced. But such a system would require canape in the bidding system, would it not?

Yes, we would pass with the x KQxx xx KQxxxx hand - however, the main point of the bidding system was to a) increase the strength of the 1C to 17+ to help with interference (the possibility of 15-16 pt hands makes competition harder to deal with) - by making it stronger we found that it reduces the frequency of this weakness in the precision system and easier to handle interference b ) 13-16 HCP and 9-12 ranges for openings reduces the point ranges even beyond the usual 11-15 of precision. This is where I believe the greatest advantage of strong club systems lie- not mainly because of the light openings (though that is some benefit), but because of the LIMITED STRENGTH openings Thus, increasing the pt range of the 2C to 11-16 or something like that is not in accordance with objective (b ). Not opening x KQxx xx KQxxxx shouldnt be asignificant anyway as most pairs do not play a strong club system anyway and would thus pass those hands. TO The Hog: how far to reduce? I'm happy playing a 15/16/17+ strong club, and reduce the point ranges by 1-2... is opening light really that big of an advantage? I think having very sound 1x level openings is also an advantage as well as opening light. We combine the advantages of both- our two level 2D/2H/2S bids really are basically hands (6-7 losers) one would open based on the losing trick count, but cannot based on HCP in a 'standard' system. The one level 1D/1H/1S along with 2C are therefore typically 5-6 losers. As for playability, I'm sure Fantoni-Nunes have already demonstrated that such a system works quite well (the idea of this system was really to have a Fantoni-Nunes precision hybrid) Now that's out of the way, what's the best way of treating 4 card major openings in a strong club context? To use canape or not? To open 13-16 balanced hands with 4 card majors with 1M, or 1D and 1NT rebid along with checkback? Ie, with KQxx Axx Kx Qxx would you open 1S or 1D in a 4 card major strong club? Or KQxx Axxx Kxx Jx? Axxx x KQxx AJxx? Thanks for the replies so far- I'll be down in Canberra for the next 7 days for the Australian youth team selection (playing this very system!) so I wont be able to post for a while.

Me and my partner currently play a heavily modified precision system with 1C = 17+ any (moscito relay responses) 1D = 2+D, 13-16HCP 1H = 4+H, 13-16HCP 1S = 4+S, 13-16HCP 1NT = 10-12HCP bal 2C = 13-16, 6+C or 5+C and 4M 2D/2H/2S = 9-12, 5+ suit unbal 2NT = 9-12 5-5 minors We've found the system works very well (especially at pairs), but in a precision context would 5 card majors with forcing NT work better? Or do you think it's just a matter of preference/style.

The Zar point scheme uses A = 6, K = 4, Q = 2 and J = 1.

Hey Mike, EHAA is more of a system designed for destructive bidding rather than constructive bidding. I've only played the EHAA+ system rather than EHAA (see www.abo.fi/~jboling/bridge/ehaap.pdf). This puts hands in the 12-18 pt range as opening at the one level with a 4+ suit-as others have noted, if 4-4 the lower, if 5/5 then the higher. So that covers the 12-13 pt range of the 10-13 you asked about. For the 10-11 open at the two level with a 5 card suit. 10-13 bal open 1NT. The notes say to play 2 level bids as 5-11 5+ suit but I'd suggest that it should vary with vulnerability and bidding position (ie use common sense! 2nd seat red vs white your partner wont be happy with a poor 5 card suit and weak hand-while in 3rd seat white vs red you have alot more leeway and 5- ~13 with 5 + suit is fine). After a 3rd/4th seat opening by p, you're only really stuck with a 10-11 pt hand with 4441 type shape-a 2 over 1 or limit raise/mini-splinter or whatever you like to play should be able to show these hands. For your last question-if you dont like the wide-ranging two bids then perhaps try playing the Fantoni-Nunes system (they're a world class partnership who do very well playing the system). I'd love to have a partner to learn that system with =p (I'd like to learn the version Gerben plays http://www.geocities.com/gerben47/bridge/mosca.html - anyone game?)

With Kxx in clubs and 11 pts, shouldnt this be worth a 2D bid over 2C? Over 2NT rebid you're happy to bid 3H letting p choose between 3NT and 4H, while over 3C rebid you're happy to let him play there. After 2C-2D-2S/3S just rebid in NT.

Sure plus??? Looking at that hand I'm not too sure 3H doesnt make-double seems just as risky if not more than 3NT to me. Unless you're saying double is a responsive double and asking p to bid again which would be OK IMO. I dont fancy the 3NT chances, the opps are almost certain to have AKJ in hearts and are odds-on to have an outside entry (diamonds and clubs probably wont run), while 4D is practically game forcing, 3S will be taken as a natural 5+ suit by p. So 4C or 5C for me depending on how good p's 3 lvl overcalls are. Clubs should be fine as P should have a good club suit for a 3 level overcall in direct seat.

1. Depends on where you live-I believe it'd be illegal in America. In Australia I'm not so sure-probably HUM but in more than a few tournaments it would probably be legit. 2. It's not that crazy. John E. Fout invented an overcall structure whereby double shows a good 15+ hand, and the takeout double is shifted over to a 'takeout' 1NT where 1NT shows 3+ cards in the other 3 suits. A cuebid shows the suit ranked above and below (ie a cuebid 2H over 1H shows spades and diamonds), while a jump (called a Roman jump overcall) eg 1C-2H shows the suit and the suit above it - in this example hearts and spades. A 2NT overcall shows a strong two-suited hand.

OUCH-in a big fix!!! Nice (probable) 3C psyche by the opps. Cant pass as it'll just get passed out and you have game at least. You cant really bid 3NT with your diamond void, so X to start off with (hopefully partner has a major) - if partner bids 3D then rebid 3NT. If partner responds in a major you can try cuebidding.

Has anybody here had experience with prism signals? Prism signals are where your discarding/play when the opps play off trumps indicate the parity of your hand, whether your hand is 'odd' or 'even' and which is the 'parity suit' of your hand (eg if you have 4432 the 3 is the parity suit, if 5332 then 5 is the parity suit where the parity suit is different in odd/even from the other suits). This is useful as all four bridge hands are related-if your hand has a certain parity, and you can see dummy's, and your partner tells you his, you can work out declarer's parity (eg work out that declarer has an odd parity with the parity suit as diamonds-if he is in 6D, possible hand shapes include 4270, 4252, etc or whatever which you can deduce from the bidding and play). It does seem to require thinking on every hand though-maybe that's a good thing as it'll get u thinking about declarer's hand and after a while you get used to working out your hand's parity, telling partner about it, and from partner's signalling working out your partner's hand parity and declarer's. But does anybody have any practicall experience with prism signals??

are we in 6♦ or 7♦?? I presume 7♦ since 6♦ can be made on a crossruff... in 7♦ I'd put my chances on the spade hook and then proceed with a crossruff as for 6♦. No point setting up the clubs by any line with ruffing, as you need the heart ruffs and cant enjoy 4 clubs AND have the heart ruffs (the chance of Qxx dropping and then finding trumps 2-2 is abysmal). Edit: In 6♦-do you have the diamond 9? If so, cash the AK of clubs, then A of spades, ruff heart, ruff a club, ruff a heart, ruff a club high, heart ruff, ruff a club high, ruff a heart. You still have two top trumps, making 12 tricks. Without the diamond 9 the play is more tricky: AK of clubs, ruff a club, ruff a heart, lead a club-if east is short play the crossruff as above, using the A of spades as an entry to ruff a heart. If east turns up with 4+ clubs, ruff high, ruff a heart, finesse in spades, cash the ace of spades and then crossruff as before.