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5♥ it is [hv=pc=n&w=sa8765hak987dk43c&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1s2c2s4c4h5c5hp?]133|200|Any Wests keen for the slam?.[/hv]

That seems a bit toppy for East and likely to go down opposite a minimum?

Edited to show East's hand; South will Pass

[hv=pc=n&e=skj9hqt64dq987c86&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1s2c2s4c4h5c?]133|200|What now and why?[/hv] Post edited to show East's hand

[hv=pc=n&w=sa8765hak987dk43c&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1s2c2s4c?]133|200|Anyone open 1♥? If so you get the same sequence with ♥s. The 2♣ overcall is sound with 5+♣ Imps[/hv]

To me 4♦ denies a ♣ control so with the mooted hand I would sign off in 4♠ missing the ♣ control rather than bidding 4♥

Try reading the GIB (solitaire robot) help and learn the basic bidding system.

I expect a 5.5 MLT for the 3♠ bid. North has an 8 MLT hand before any adjustments for the fit giving an expected playing level of 5.5. With 3 of the 6 keycards a 4♦ cue bid of your flavour is appropriate.

Ax♥ opposite an invitational 6+♥ suit which will revalue upwards with support means I bid 4♥. In addition the 6.5 modified loosing trick count adds comfort to the 4♥ bid: 19-6.5-8.5=4 level

With 9.5 playing tricks following two pre-empts I would hope partner has something to offer. Unusual 4NT or 5♦, would both work for me with the self-sustaining ♦ suit providing certainty.

Thanks another system for me to investigate when I get round to buying the book.

Thanks for the comment I've tried this similar approach Modified Jacoby 2NT - Bridge Articles - Bridge with Larry Cohen, but found that partner struggled to remember the various options. This strength only based approach in its simplest granular form relies on basic MLT addition to reach a suitable contract. Naturally playing strength is affected by card distribution, but this approach is ambivalent about shape, apart from knowing that there is an 8 card fit.

If you're behind in the 4th quarter (no prizes for 2nd) and want to bid the slam - I've been experimenting with this strength based Lim+,3+ approach using ideas from the web The mechanics are straightforward once a hand has been classified into Lim,LimX,Min,MinX,Int,IntX,Str+. Initial classification is based on an hcp range defined versus an unbalanced/balanced hand. The T&P Jacoby 2♠/2NT (T&P = Tried & Played although mostly many simulated hands, but it has worked well in actual play) After 1♥-2♠ bid increments are based on strength 2NT +1 Min 3♣ +2 MinX 3♦ +3 Int 3♥ +4 IntX 3♠-4♦ 5+ Str+ ITL Q Bids Following the first step responder may be able to place the contract or move to slam investigation after hand revaluation. If not responder shows shows his strength based on MLT/TP. For example when opener is Min. After 1♥-2♠--2NT 3♣ 7.5MLT or lower MLT/TP equivalent 3♦ 8MLT or lower MLT/12TP 3♥ >8 MLT/10-11TP This time opener may be able to place the contract depending on revalued strength. After 1♥-2♠--2NT-3♣ 3♦ 8MLT (i.e. a balanced minimum) 3♥ 6.5.MLT/15-16TP 2+KCs/1KC & Q trumps 3♠-4♦ 6 or lower MLT/17+TP 2+KCs/1KC & Q trumps 4♥ anything else. After 3♥/an Italian Q bid responder can place the contract or continue slam investigation. I'm still simulating the optimal revalued TP ranges to combine with the MLT so the above are initial indications The advantage of this approach is that the contract can often be placed in 3/4M with little clue being given as to what to lead. I tend not to use the approach when I have an alternative 5+ card suit and a 3 card trump suit without honours and enough for a 2/1 bid. [hv=pc=n&s=st97hkt98daj9cak7&w=sk6h4d8732cqjt654&n=saqj2hqj6532dqtc2&e=s8543ha7dk654c983&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p1hp2sp2np3cp3sp4cp4hp5cp6h]399|300|The way to a slam (and yes it depends on the K♠ sitting with West) via the T&P Jacoby 2♠/2NT Italian Q bids Kickbo 2♠ (3+♥, Limit+) 2NT (Min) 3♣ (Min+ MLT/revalued TP based) 3♠ (♠ctrl, 6 or lower MLT/17+TP w. at least 1♥ honour & 2KC/1KC & Q♥) 4♣ (♣ctrl & ♥ honour since 3NT is bypassed) 4♥ (no ♦ ctrl) 5♣ (AK♣,♦ctrl & 3/5 KCs) 6♥ (5 of 6 keycards) [/hv] Comments/questions welcomed.

That makes more sense although playing +1 Reverse help suit try +2 Trump help required +3-5 Short suit enables any trump suit support to be defined precisely https://users.cs.fiu.edu/~pestaina/SymmetricNotes.pdf

I'm not sure how useful option 3 is when both opponents have passed. I prefer to have 3-way GTs available which will take you to at least the 3-level. If you're concerned about giving away information then just bid 4♥. If they do bid then that provides further information as to whether 3 or 4♥ is the right contract.

16hcp/6MLT and a 9 card fit is game try territory for me

I'm aware of the opportunity for doubling. I've used 2♠ in this case as one of the versions I'm looking at needs the extra step to be symetric.

Looking at it from a pure MLT basis North has ~7.25 MLT and is Min with 13/14 total points depending on whether you count both an honour adjustment & 'Quack' adjustment. (I count one or the other). With standard revaluation for the long suit (+3) this becomes 17 total points with possible extra value for the Q♦ & QJ♠ opposite a 12/13+hcp for standard Jacoby 2NT. Looking at South's hand we have 7MLT with 15hcp + 1 for the 'Quack' adjustment and a flat shape which can work well opposite an unbalanced hand. So with 17/18 +16 total points i.e. 34 total points max. We are in borderline slam territory. I'm not quite sure how to adjust North's MLT yet, but possibly half the point adjustment works giving 6.5. South has an intermediate hand with 3 keycards so I call that 6.5; again slam territory. As mikeh points out its close to 50% for North, but there may be times when you want to make the call. The issue for AI machine learning is finding a s set of constructs that convey this information so that we can proceed to (say) Italian Q bidding and continue/stop

This one is a close call, but as it stands I end in 4♥ without a slam investigation. When it’s close to 50% I at least like to make the investigation. I’m wondering if there is any scientific approach that at least gets you to the investigation stage.

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I'm experimenting with various approaches (also considering your De Mass approach). One version does have that option, the other doesn't need it, but in either case I'm still looking for the decision making required to move beyond 4♥ on these hands. I'm struggling with the revaluation on the hand combination and how to show it.

Jacoby2NT, but using 2♠ instead of 2NT for ♥. The bid can be 2NT if that is your way

Struggling to decide whether this is a 50%er. Does you Jacoby2♠/2NT variation make this any easier?[hv=pc=n&n=saqj2hqj6532dqtc2&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p1hp2sp?]133|200[/hv]

Standard for me is a splinter raise with ♠ shortage. However, I use it as a slam try in ♥ with ♠ control (may or may not be a splinter)

I may have been tempted in the past with an 'Ekren 2♥' , but now exclude the 6card Majors unless a weaker suit i.e. A9xxxx max.. 1♠ all the way for me now.