smerriman

This looks like it will be the same cause as http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/77254-weird-cue-bid/ , reported in August and being fixed 'in the next version', whenever that will be.

"3-5 ♣ 3-5 ♦ 3-4 ♥ 2- ♠. 12+ points" is the description of your double. The fact that 4NT repeats exactly the same description virtually guarantees the bid is undefined, so it's not surprising GIB passed.

I know your posts aren't normally intended to be serious, but if you / anyone else wasn't aware, "KQ" means at least 6 points on the 8-4-2-1 scale. So it shows either the A, or K + Q.

I should have learnt the first time. This time it cost me 14 IMPs: [hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=smerriman&s=S92HAK3DAK73CQ983&wn=Robot&w=SKT8HQ852D54CA762&nn=Robot&n=S7H976DQ9862CKT54&en=Robot&e=SAQJ6543HJT4DJTCJ&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=1N(notrump%20opener.%20Could%20have%205M.%20--%202-5%20%21C%3B%202-5%20%21D%3B%202-5%20%21H%3B%202-5%20%21S%3B%2015-17%20HCP%3B%2018-%20total%20points)PP2C!(Cappelletti%20-%20single%20suited%20--%2014-%20HCP%3B%2010+%20total%20points)P2D(20-%20total%20points)P2S(Longest%20suit%20--%20twice%20rebiddable%20%21S%3B%2010-13%20total%20points)D(Takeout%20double%20--%203-5%20%21C%3B%203-5%20%21D%3B%203-5%20%21H%3B%202%20%21S%3B%2017-%20HCP%3B%2018%20total%20points)PPP&p=DKD4D2DTHKH8H9H4HAH2H7HTH3H5H6HJS6S2STS7S8C5SQS9CJCQCAC4C2CKSJC3S4D3SKD6HQD8DJD7D5DQSADAS5C8C6CTS3C9C7D9]400|300[/hv]

For reference: http://www.bridgebase.com/myhands/hands.php?traveller=1128-1507256881-68368295&username=kontoleon Being an express tournament, you are not playing with bots, you are playing with humans. And the majority of humans who play in those express tournaments have no clue how to bid, so I wouldn't read much into it.

(NB - not a bug report. Just an amusing hand.) [hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=smerriman&s=SKQ72H32DAK7CA975&wn=Robot&w=SA86HAQJ98D42CQJ6&nn=Robot&n=SJT3HDQJT98653CK3&en=Robot&e=S954HKT7654DCT842&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=P1N(notrump%20opener.%20Could%20have%205M.%20--%202-5%20%21C%3B%202-5%20%21D%3B%202-5%20%21H%3B%202-5%20%21S%3B%2015-17%20HCP%3B%2018-%20total%20points)P3N(2-5%20%21C%3B%202-5%20%21D%3B%202-4%20%21H%3B%202-4%20%21S%3B%2010-15%20HCP)PPP&p=HQS3H7H2SASTS4S2S6SJS9S7&c=11]400|300[/hv] Staggeringly, this was made by basic GIB, so this isn't a simulation-based bid, but what it thinks is the book bid. It paid off, since, predictably, the opponents decided not to run their 11 card heart fit. Or perhaps it didn't, since 6♦ is of course cold. (Good luck getting there, though.)

The advanced robot doesn't pass because a simulation tells it to bid on (obviously any simulation would - and did back then as well). If the gap in the bidding database had been fixed, the basic robot would make the right bid. Bidding database holes can only be analysed by running basic GIB to see what the "default" bid is (see fred's message above). (If I'm not mistaken, the 'running out of time to think' issue being discussed in other threads occurs when GIB is simulating, ie only during the play for basic bots - it's not connected to bidding in any way.)

The standard definition of solid means no losers opposite a void. Missing one honor would be semi-solid.

I think doubler has a point - when solely talking about the main bridge club. It's true that some silly scores can make it looks like you're scoring well, but in reality you're not getting scored better than the vast majority of other players - so in any tournament format when there's a final leaderboard, those silly scores are completely inconsequential. In the main bridge club however, you're being scored against different players every hand, and thus if you happen to get a 'good' hand - or where someone else has a silly score - it'll look like you're doing well, and you won't get that final leaderboard to cancel things out. Then again, you could always just play matchpoints.

If there isn't a rule telling it what to bid, it passes. It doesn't have any sense of wondering how a bid would do.

Free daylongs use basic robots, which don't run any simulations at all on the bidding.

This reminds me of a hand I posted last year where GIB also went wrong after a transfer when there was some opposition bidding: http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/74394-oh-dear-gib/ Sadly, that was 14 months and several upgrades of GIB in the past, and nothing was done, so..

I posted this 16 months ago. The exact same bug still exists.

smerriman vs natali_ 54-13 42-33 33-36 45-37 ----- Total 174 - 119 http://webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/tview.php?t=ARDCHALLENGE:9197de39.a3b9.11e7.84e2.0cc47a39aeb4-1506540306&u=smerriman http://webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/tview.php?t=ARDCHALLENGE:e65a543f.a4ae.11e7.84e2.0cc47a39aeb4-1506645675&u=smerriman http://webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/tview.php?t=ARDCHALLENGE:c04fd753.a557.11e7.84e2.0cc47a39aeb4-1506718196&u=smerriman http://webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/tview.php?t=ARDCHALLENGE:9e7a7be5.a5ea.11e7.84e2.0cc47a39aeb4-1506781275&u=smerriman

That's pretty impressive over 16 boards :)

I think I just found it by Googling the first time (or linked from a past forum post).

https://www.bridgebase.com/doc/gib_descriptions.php

What was silly about the defense?

Stranger challenge so no, but this can't possibly be something related to not enough simulations, so I expect the bug would have affected both.

This is what I do. Expanding on it for those unfamiliar: Practice - Start a bidding table - choose 'Controlled by host' if you want opposition bidding, click Start Deal Source - choose a dealer under General, then go to Advanced and check the Dealer input Enter something like: predeal north SQ62, HT, DKJ973, CAQJ3 predeal south SAKT9873, HQ97, DAQT Hit close, sit at one seat, add a free robot at the other, and hit redeal if necessary. It's a little messy if you want to analyse options at both seats, since you need to keep unseating yourself and the robot, switching seats, and undoing - but it works. This works for basic bots; if you have access to paid bots I think you can get the same thing working at a teaching table instead.

It looks like GIB just can't handle it at all. According to its definitions, redouble shows the ♥A, 5♠ surprisingly shows the ♠Q but denies ♥AK (though I think I recall a video by Peter Hollands / gwnn recently where it lied about this and didn't have the Q), and all other bids are undefined (a normal bid like 6♦ no longer shows the Q + a K).

Yes, of course - it wouldn't be bridge otherwise! Dummy and declarer are still the usual hands based on the bidding (ie if you swap seats, your original hand is still dummy).

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=smerriman&s=SAQJT62HA7DAKQ75C&wn=Robot&w=S93HQD8432CKQJ965&nn=Robot&n=SK87H985DJT96CAT7&en=Robot&e=S54HKJT6432DC8432&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=2C(Strong%20two%20club%20--%2019+%20HCP%3B%2023+%20total%20points%3B%20forcing%20to%202N)P2N(Positive%20notrump%20--%202-5%20%21C%3B%202-5%20%21D%3B%202-4%20%21H%3B%202-4%20%21S%3B%208+%20HCP)P3S(5+%20%21S%3B%2019+%20HCP%3B%2023+%20total%20points)P4S(2-5%20%21C%3B%202-5%20%21D%3B%202-4%20%21H%3B%203-4%20%21S%3B%208+%20HCP%3B%2011-%20total%20points)P5C(Cue%20bid%20--%205+%20%21S%3B%20%21CA%3B%2025+%20total%20points%3B%20forcing)P6S(2-5%20%21C%3B%202-5%20%21D%3B%202-4%20%21H%3B%203-4%20%21S%3B%208+%20HCP%3B%2011-%20total%20points)P7S(5+%20%21S%3B%20%21CA%3B%2025+%20total%20points)PPP&p=D2D6H6D5&c=13]400|300[/hv] See trick 1.

Based on the descriptions you've shown 27+ total points. I tried switching around some cards in the hand editor, and all of the cases I could come up with where you did have the ace resulted in the same number of tricks, even though it looks like the QD is an "extra trick". Silly yes, but like I said, GIB assumes you have what it thinks you have, no matter how logical that is. That's something that should be looked at, but in a sense unrelated to times when it does something that bidding-based simulations should never tell it to do. What it should probably do is adjust the simulations to include more cases, but 'weight' them according to how likely it thinks you are to have that hand. Even if it assigns 0.01% to very unlikely hands, that would cause it to break seeming ties better.

I think those examples are a bit different; for example, in the second case, you're guaranteed to hold the Ace of diamonds or a diamond void based on your bidding, so it doesn't matter what East plays. It's well known that GIB puts far too much emphasis on you having your bid, so any wild bidding causes it to go haywire. (If you want some easy 100%s, try bidding 3NT in a competitive auction with no stoppers at all and GIB is almost guaranteed to not cash their tricks).