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In the Netherlands the standard system is Biedermeijer Rood, which is basically a 4crd major system, but it offers you some choices to turn it into a 5crd major system. All bridge players (of a certain level) are supposed to know the standard system of their country, making it easier to play with a pick-up partner or on the Internet. As the most popular online bridge sites (like BBO) are predominantly American, lots of non-Americans have learned SAYC to be able to play online. Steven

Assuming 4+crd spades and 3crd hearts: With a weak hand and support you show that asap (don't bid spades) With an inv+ hand you bid spades first and support later All natural: 1♥-1♠ 1nt-? 2♥ = inv 3♥ = GF Don't know what you need Crowhurst for... With 3crd spades opener can bid them now and reveal the possible double fit Steven

I'm usually not pessimistic, but what if he has ♠xxx ♥AKQ ♦QJx ♣KQJx? Ask keycards first, then bid 6nt. Steven

Why didn't you double with that hand? Steven

System is to blame. If responder can show some values immediately with 2♦ or 2♥, opener will make a move over 3♠. Steven

Q1: 9+ no 5crd suit or GF Q2: 2M Q3: min takeout with equal length in the majors Q4: balanced but not absolutely minimum (forcing pass is on) Q5&6: min takeout with 4crd suit (other major is shorter) Q7: too strong to overcall 1nt (but why not rdbl with this hand?) Q8: too strong to overcall 2♣ Q9: takeout with extra's; no 5crd suit Q10: too strong to overcall (♥/♠) Q11: N/A (cfr Q2/3/5/6) Q12: no Q13: min no 4crd ♥ Q14: extra's no 4crd ♥ Q15: cue for hearts Q16: this doesn't come up often

What I play is not that much different from you: 2♠ is the only non-forcing rebid (2nt is GF as well). I would bid a forcing 3♥ now. Steven

To me this is just evolution... In the Netherlands and Flanders beginners are taught to open their longest suit and the lowest from 4crd suits. That means a 1♠ opening is a 5crd suit unless 4-3-3-3. Evolution: open 4M-3-3-3 with 1♣. Now a 1♥ opening is a 5crd suit unless 4-4-(32). Evolution: open 4-4-(32) with the longest minor. Now you are playing five cards major and a 1♦ opening is a 4crd suit unless 4-4-3-2. Evolution: open 4-4-3-2 with 1♣. As already mentioned in this thread, some players take this even further, opening all balanced hands outside their NT range with 1♣ so their 1♦ is always unbalanced (and a 5crd suit most of the time). Steven

Lebensohl: 2nt forces 3♣. Only if opener wants to gf (18/19+) he bids something else. Usually it only applies after a reverse that is not yet gf (so not after 2-over-1) and only when responder is unlimited (so not after a 1nt response). If you notice a difference with Ingberman, you have your answer... Steven

1♠-2♥-2♠ is not forcing, so responder can pass. Steven

Playing 2/1 10+ myself, I follow these rules after 1M-2x: 2nt is gf, by opener or by responder, e.g. 1♠-2♦-2nt or 1♠-2♣-2♠-2ntSupport for openers second suit is gf, e.g. 1♠-2♣-2♦-3♦Support for responders suit is gf, e.g. 1♠-2♦-3♦These are non-forcing: e.g. 1♠-2♦-2♥-3♦ (suit rebid) or 1♠-2♦-2♥-2♠ (preference) or 1♠-2♥-2♠-3♠ (inv) Any strong hand that doesn't have a forcing descriptive bid goes via the gf 2nt. With shortness in openers major responder will have to respond 1nt with 10, occasionally with 11. Steven

[hv=d=n&v=n&b=5&a=p1cp1dp1hp1sp2cp3dp3sp4hppp]133|100[/hv]

Why that need for an invite with 5/5 majors? 1nt-2♣-2♦-2♠-2nt-3♥ already shows that hand... Steven

I believe there is no such thing as an expert consensus. But what do I know? I am no expert... BTW I open 1♥ and I will rebid 2♥ over partners 1nt or 2♣. Steven

I agree with awm and Fluffy. I would like to add some more considerations: If you don't play 2/1 gf (like me), make the agreement that the 2nt rebid is gf and that the 2M rebid just shows a minimum. That way you can always rebid 2nt with 15-17 after a 2-over-1. Unfortunately you can not do this in Acol...5crd ♠ is less of a problem than 5crd ♥ because there is only one answer (1nt) that gives you a problem. If you still play it that way, you can rebid 2nt with 16-17 (1M-1nt-2nt). If you have made the popular choice and have given some special meaning to that 2nt rebid, you have more reason to open 1nt with a 5crd major...If you only have a doubleton in the other major and you open 1nt, you risk playing in a 5-2 fit while there is a 5-3 fit available. With a suit-oriented hand with only a small doubleton, there are even more problems (see awm's example).If you make it a rule to never open 1nt with 5-2 in the majors, your rebid of 2♣ can be on a 3crd suit (but not a doubleton), but the 2♦ rebid will always be a 4crd suit. So what is the worst that can happen after 1♥-1♠-2♣? Responder can have 5-1-3-4 and raise you to 3♣... Sure, but with 10-11 and a ♦-stopper he will prefer 2nt because he knows you can have a 3crd suit... If you take all the considerations, given in this thread, into account, you will sometimes open 1M and sometimes open 1nt and, to me, that sounds like a good approach... Steven

I play Walsh like this: with 4M4♦ I always respond 1M, but with 4M5+♦ I only respond 1M with less than invitational values. I don't play XYZ, but I do play two-way checkback over the 1nt rebid. After 1♣-1♦-1♥,1♠ is 4SF and 2♠ is 4♠5+♦ with precisely invitational values. Because 4SF is at the one-level here, invitational values suffice. However, you will only be exactly invitational when looking for nt and lacking a spade stopper. And with a gf 4♠5+♦ you start with 1♠ as well... This solves a lot of the problems posed in this thread. Some examples: 1♣-1♦-1♥-1♠-1nt spade stopper & min 1♣-1♦-1♥-1♠-2nt spade stopper & extra's (gf now) 1♣-1♦-1♥-1♠-2♠ 4crd ♠-suit any strength 1♣-1♦-1♥-1♠-2♠-2nt inv / 3♠ gf 4♠5+♦ 1♣-1♦-1♥-1♠-2♥-3♣ gf with ♣-support 1♣-1♦-1♥-2♥ inv 4♥5+♦ / 3♥ gf 4♥5+♦ Steven

3NT by North is clearly the bad bid here... Instead he should have bid 2♥ (4SF) or 4♦. The latter should deny a heart control IMHO, so I prefer 4SF. So [hv=d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1dp1sp2cp2hp2np3dp3hp3sp4dp4sp4np5dp6nppp]133|100[/hv] 3♥ cue (in context ♥K) 3♠ cue (in context ♠A, but I prefer a cue in the first bid suit to show 2 top honors) 4♦ RKB (with a working ♠K South takes over) 4♠ 0/3 keycards 4nt ♦Q? 5♦ no 6nt because I don't think 7nt is a good contract without the ♦Q Steven

For one subscription you get two accounts. So the math is 3.33x12x2. To conclude: none of the posters here is a paying member of BridgeTopics. So nobody can really tell whether the topics are worth their money or not... Steven

This is an interesting discussion. There are clearly two sides here. It does seem however that neither side really differentiates between 2nd seat and pass-out seat... Logic would dictate that the higher the requirements for the double in 2nd seat, the lower the requirements for double in pass-out seat and vice-versa... I also wonder if the same principles hold when defending against a strong NT? Assume you would still play penalty doubles against a strong NT, does that mean you would only double with 17/18+? How much would a double be against a strong nt in the pass-out seat? Steven

If you need 14/15+ to double in direct position, you will pass with 13. Doesn't that mean your partner has to keep it open with 11/12 in balancing position? Steven

This it what Roy Hughes recommends: pass = weak or lenght in spades dbl = balanced with or without stopper 1nt = clubs 2♣ = diamonds 2♦ = hearts 2♥ = 3-suited, short in spades 2♠ = minors 2nt = clubs and hearts 3♣ = diamonds and hearts 3♦ = clubs with no spade shortness or stopper 3♥ = clubs with spade shortness 3♠ = AKQxxx or longer in some suit 3nt = all strength in spades dbl, 1nt, 2♣, 2♦ all show a semi-positive or better Steven

Actually you knew about ♠K and ♣AK when he showed 4 controls, because you have all the controls... The 4♠ showed you the ♣Q and the 5♥ showed the ♦Q and denied the ♥Q. The bidding could have continued and you would have found out about the missing jacks in hearts and clubs (5♠-5NT-6♣-6♦), but those don't make a real difference here... Nobody seems to question the decision to bid 7NT... Would you have recognized the chances for a double squeeze when hearts are not 2-2 DURING THE BIDDING? I think this is pretty awesome... Steven

Polish Club is not a variant of Precision. Any sensible system classification should make a distinction between strong club systems (to which Precision belongs) and multi-way club systems (to which Polish Club belongs). Strong club systems should be further divided into 5crd major systems (like Precision) or 4crd major systems (like Blue Team Club). To me Precision is a strong club system with 5crd majors. Steven

You forgot the 2♦ relay by South. From that point on all bids are interchanged between North and South. Now, to answer your question: The rule being applied here is: if you have N control cards (not controls, but control cards), show the queen immediately from the Nth suit onwards. I first learned about this rule in Alan Truscott's notes on Symmetric Relay. In the example, North has 3 controls cards (♠K, ♣A and ♣K), so he will show queens starting with his 3rd suit (spades). Clearly this is more efficient than queens only in the second scan. Ambiguity is possible, but it doesn't happen that often and even when it does it doesn't always matter. So, yes, I think it is worthwile. Steven

[hv=pc=n&s=sq2h2daq92caj9432&n=sak3ha98743dj83ct&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1cp1h1s2cp2sp3dp3hp3sp3nppp]266|200[/hv] East leads the ♠J. How do you play and why? Steven