vianu2

At the table i bid 4♥ and i managed to go down 1 :D . Dummy had: AKxx Axx AJxxx A I didn't find diamonds and i lost 2, and didn't play for trumps 3-3 (the preemptive hand had kjx ♥). Perhaps i could declare better. I still don't think we can make 4♠ (if we lose 2♦). And 4♣ is 500. I think if they go down less, then my 4M contract is much worse. So in that particular case, pass seems better.Hmm Edit. I'm not sure what diamonds i had in my hand (not sure i had the ten or if i had , then missed the 9)

Kidding or not, but i have 13 and opps 11+13-14 =24-25 So partner has 2-3 hcps and the only way to set this contract is J♠ and Q or J?♥ to partner (j10♠ would be fine but 10 could be find on dummy :D ). I dont care of leading minors because my partner cant have entries to take his suit. Hey 9x♠ to partner then an extra tric (a queen, a king) may be enough. Once i led against 1NT- 2cl-2h-3NT heart to declarer's holding ,i gave 3 trics but i made 2 (plus another ace and king, and my partner made his jack and we set the contract). Notice: he had only a jack:)

I tend to agree with bidding a major (but i cannot imagine that i can't set 4♣!). At the table i didn't think to bid spades (but now i understand the reason:) my spade suit is much better than the heart suit). I still doubt about making the major contract in 4-3 fit when trumps are probably 4-2 to opps, but again one good thing is that ill ruff clubs from dummy. I doubt again about entries to my hand, if i need to clear the diamond suit. But the real problem is that: If we play in the 7 cards fit, then there are 17 total trics and if we make 10 they go down 3 (i.e. 5oo). Even with a correction, it seems to me that pass may work better .

7♠ :D (or 2 is better?)

let's assume we are playing 4cards ♦ please i did not mentioned before.

I often received hands like that; [hv=pc=n&s=sqjt9hq976dt87c98&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=p1d3c(may%20have%20some%20extra)p4cdp]133|200[/hv] Perhaps at equal vulnerability i would pass (does anyone agree with that or is kind of stupidity ?). At mps i would pass again, but here i'm playing imps and i am vulnerable. I assume that is not a new bidding problem, but because of the lack of knowledge (as our friendly poster X noticed in another threat ) i'm not sure how to deal with that. Is there any solution or is just kind of luck? Or i could prevent that with a X over 3cl?

That mr Ace must suffering "old American marriage" nothing to say in the house, lots of crap outside ...

I see what you mean but no:( that "pro" is not world class on BBo . Is an old experienced USA player who gives bridge lessons and teach more systems than i ever heard, and that's why i said pro..maybe i was wrong about the meaning of "pro".

I did always enjoyed danish humor :P I think in the previous post i answered to your funny question "if i open 3/4♣ with that hand". It is true? Is that what u asked me?? I think i agreed with your "correct double-dummy bid" yes or no? If i didn't say that (but i doubt)i will say one more time: I agree with your 4♣ bid!! And now: Are u aware that Your 4♣ bid here is not competitive? When i started that topic i intended to prove to you the meaningless of a 4♣ competitive bid (i.e. a hand which can be described as "a 3/4 ♣ opening having an extra ace/king" see MrAce ;) ). Of course if u don't understand that the hand u posted is not a competitive hand and your 4♣ is not a competitive bid , what can i do? Go open a book.

Take it easy i don't have ANY ♥ for you!

And if u reviewed the post and that is all u have seen there, that i am suggesting to play any artificial rebid, i am sorry for you. I am saying that your 4♣ in that auction must not be competitive!!!!! I am saying that is a waste of time to play it as competitive!!!!!!!! (Do you know what does it mean...bidding in competition?) Where did i suggest any artificial bid or whatever??? WOW I GIVE UP I'M TALKING TO THE WALL!!!

Ok . And how do u know that they are playing differently? I already said that i ONLY want to reverse the 4♣/4♥ meaning in THAT special case . Why don't u read what i said before? And if there are world class players who bid 4♣ in that auction with another hand than any 3loosers hand after reevaluation!... so if they bid 4cl as competitive! i don't care. Go and ask them why. In an world championship Bochi and his pard gave a 5minor contract because they trusted that their opps are sane (there were 4 losers in that stupid contract!). Maybe they are protected themselves and then bid with less looking at their opps? Did u think about? p.s XXX to Dave

Gwnn can u try to post somewhere else those rhetorical questions? I suggest to open another thread.

Do u mind to spend a little time to read the previous topic?? If no, please don't bother me with this nonsense. Ok?? I OPEN 1♣ AS ANY SANE PLAYER. 1♣-1♥-1♠-3♥- Now i bid something forcing to show my extras. That hand is too strong for a simple competitive bid. 4♥ IF I PLAY IT AS A 3 LOSERS MONO SUITED HAND 4♣ IF THAT IS THE MEANING OF 4♣ (3 LOSERS HAND WITH CLUBS). If our agreement is 4♥ i will pass partner's 5♣ bid If our agreement is 4♣ and partner bid 4♥ i will end in 5♣. WHAT ELSE CAN U BID WITH SUCH A GOOD HAND, DO U WANT TO ONLY "COMPETE" WITH IT? END.

hey that is a 3 losers hand :) and i would bid accordingly with the 4♣/4♥ meaning.(see previous post)

Oooffffffffffffffffffff This is exactly what i HATE. To bid 4♣ with a 3,4♣ opening and an extra A or K. If your 3,4 ♣ opening + extra A/K has 3 losers (after u reevaluate it) is fine with me. x Kxx x AKQJxxxx x xxx x AKQJxxxx (do u often open 1cl here?) x axx xx AKQJxxx - Axx xx AKQJxxx x Axx x KQJxxxxx and so on. But if it has 4+ losers i HATE IT! I bid 5♣. Why are you so conservative? x Kxx KQ KQJxxxx What am I looking for , bidding 4♣?? I am insane and i bid 5 ( IF i want to bid; at MPs i don't want :D ) Kx Kx xx KQJxxxx Do u want to bid 4♣ with that hand??? Wow!!! At this moment You don't know your partner's shape and strength. You have nothing more than u said with your 1cl opening : 6 losers hand (counting the k♥ as a loser) and potential play in spades or clubs if partner makes a move. Yeah i am insane and i PASS. I edited to add a conclusion. It seems to me a 3losers monosuited hand ,in that auction, has obviously heart cuebid (axx ,x , or xxx). So that's why i do like to play 4H showing this type of hand. So i can use the controversial 4CL bidding for the fitted hand having clubs, which gives a little space too (to establish which fit is better - if there is club fit too).

I have to admit that my english is too bad to combat those affirmations. As I can see, there is a WORLD of difference between your statements and mine. You are giving new meaning to all i said. No, my "expert/pro" friend didn't claim that. He only said he would bid 4♥ there and he plays 4♣ as not necessarily fitted hand (or maybe i got it wrong and he said 4♣ denies any spade 3 cards fit). I said that with good cards and heart stopper i would bid 3NT so that's why i excluded the heart stopper from the 4cl bidding (i assumed 4cl has shown GOOD CARDS). I said i would pass with bad opening and misfitted hand ( that is, a defensive hand). Now i say that with a good minors hand i would X (that is, still defensive hand). What can i have when i X? Not a 2-2-4-5 hand because You don't open 1♣ with this (either open 1♦ either 1NT). What about 1-3-4-5? Still open 1♦. So 1-2-4-6? Or 2-1-4-6? Here i'm in doubt (which of those). 0-3-4-6? For sure i X. There you have the 4♦ bid (i assume that may show an offensive 6-4 minors or strong 5-5). Maybe we have the agreement to X with 1-2-4-6 and bid 4♦ with 2-1-4-6 . And if your hand is a strong 5-5 minors opening (that is 18+) 4♦ doesn't seem a risk. Having xxx in ♥ on the 1♥-3♥ auction i evaluate my xxx as a shortness and i would bid accordingly with that. There is no reason for me to make use of that 4♣ bidding!! (strange, u asked why do i care of the forcing/notforcing meaning of it)..to only show an offensive misfitted hand!!! (that is as a competitive bid) You tell me that u bid 4♣ to check if your partner has let's say, the A♠ to bid 5? But if he hasn't this ace, then opps make 4♥+(1) so your 5♣ is still the best contract (now you must sacrifice !!). No i dunno know too many conventions..i'm sure any experienced pair would have a meaning for every auction i described before. BUT to make use of 4♣ bidding to check if your 5♣ contract is available is useless. Biding will turn to you (or to your partner) and u are in same trouble: X or 5♣? I think that bidding is useful only when there are exactly 3♥ to play and exactly 4♣.This is laughable not my idea to play 4♣ having support. Besides, i'm not in a real danger when i pass. If partner has any extras (and not the Dave's qjxxx qxxx let's say a sane 1♠ overcal) then he knows i opened the bidding and he knows i did pass over the 3♥ auction (and he needs little brain to find out why). Then he may not pass 3♥ or even 4♥!! But to say that i would pass with the hands u posted, this is laughable! NO i don't pass. I bid 5♣ ! Some hands are still too strong for the 5♣ bid. Then u should establish what is the meaning of the 4♥ bid!! Does it show spade support in a slam interest hand? Is Only a constructive bid, trying to give extra info's when i already know we are in game? It is a strong hand with ♣ having heart cue and slam interest? (that is a 3 losers hand?). Many open a 3 losers hand with 2♣. There are some other options. So if we exclude the 3 losers hand can we bid 4♥ showing either spade support either strong hand with clubs? Have no clue. So instead of laughing at me, u better say that 4♣ may be that 3 (4??) losers monosuited hand and then 4♥ be the fitted hand having clubs and spade support.

Pass??? when i accuse him that he underbids? Guess♥ Honestly, if 4cl is forcing some of Mr.Aces's hands are described well ..but we still ended in hearts. If 4cl is not forcing,but only competitive,then i think i don't need that bid. Mr.ace convinced me :D Then i would simply bid 5♣ ( anticipative lol). P.s He needs glasses tough. The board u gave me..If u ever bid that forcing 4♣ (especially vulnerable against not) then u must have strong agrements to bid that slam over 4♣-5♥ :P

♥♥♥♥ Do u have glasses? "Here you go, they can make 4♥, while we can make 5♣". :lol: why don't u try 5H? "Try that, what else do you do other than 4♣(forcing), you don't want to rule out 4♠ if partner has 6. 3N could be right :lol: but there's not much you can do about that". So 4♣-4h♥-Partner ? "5♣ cold, while 3 NT has no play" :D :D What do am i supposed to have over 4♥ to raise to 5♣?? Do you really think if u are going to bid a contract u will play it too? When i said sane opponents i meant they are able to sacrifice. Not only you, but your opps know that u are short in spade! And their spade defenses wasted in 5cl :P :P Finally yeah..waste of time..u have competing with your ♣ as u like but they played the final contract :P :P I assume u got info's during that auction and at least u will lead well.

At the moment when i suggested a 4cl fitted bid i didn't considered a 4cl forcing bid and now i have your hands and i may reconsider it... But of course i have to guess, i don't know if your 4cl is forcing or not...

I only asked : show that your 4♣ bidding can't be avoided and either you put pressure on opps either u have found the best contract for you...

U play 2/1 with forcing free bids, opps are sane and is your job how light u open . As dealer, all NV , You open 1♣ and u have: 1.Less than 3 cards in ♠ 2.No heart stopper Bidding goes: 1♣-1♥-1♠(5 cards)-3♥ (preemptive) Now is your turn and u want to make a competitive bid 4♣. Give all 4 hands and show that your 4♣ bidding can't be avoided and either you put pressure on opps either u have found the best contract for you. Please consider other options, like X over 3♥,pass, etc. You must post a hand which can strictly be described only with the 4♣ bid, and please demonstrate what is your gain if u do so.

I really enjoy that . So i got the point. 1. Dave bids 1♠ having q10xx xx kxxx xx 2. 3h is sort of preempting hand 3. Mr Ace overcals 4cl having xx xx Ax(x) kqjxxx(x) So E has about 20 hcps but he just overcaled 1♥ Conclusion: Mr Ace will be in trouble if he plays with Dave :D :D

2♥-X-pass-3♥(gf) pass-3♠-pass-3nt (heart stopper and minors hand) 4♥ (agree minors slam trying)-etc etc 6nt :D