Chamaco

Ok, Justin, I used for criteria: 1) west < 10 hcp 2) suit quality: west has 6 spades and at most 1 loser or 7 spades and at most 2 slosers 3) no side 4 bagger 4) if 7 spades, no void =============== Please correct/improve the criteria, and I'll rerun and repost :-) In any case, I will include the hands with a 6 bagger, one-loser suit, and 6331 :-)

To me, it seems the only plausible use would be to remove 4441 from strong 2C openers, so, say, 20+ or so hcp But then why not using Multi 2D for that ? I suppose that in places where Multi is forbidden, such a weird 2NT opener would also not be welcomed....

Here are 40 simulated hands. Draw your own conclusions on the bidding sequences :-) ==================== NOTE: EDITED AFTER JUSTIN's POST. NO 6322's anymore. 18 hands out of 40 are 6331 Hand 1 [hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 2[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 3[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 4[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 6[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 6[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 7[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 8[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 9[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 10[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 11[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 12[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 13[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 14[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 15[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 16[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 17[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 18[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 19[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 20[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 21[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 22[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 23[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 24[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 25[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 26[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 27[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 28[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 29[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 30[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 31[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 32[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 33[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 34[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 35[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 36[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 37[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 38[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 39[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - Hand 40[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s7hj972dq52cakqj5&w=sjhqdakt8743ct843&e=sakt942h8dj96c976&s=sq8653hakt6543dc2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - -

What is the correct play for 4 tricks holding in hearts: Q87xx .....(dummy) ATx The constraints are: 1) you are in dummy now 2) you have, as only extra entry to dummy (to cash hearts if they become good), KQx in a suit (you have xxx in hand in the same suit); if/when you lose the lead, defenders will play to remove your entry; 3) absolutely no info on defenders' hands (shape/hcp) based on bidding, lead and play; Thanks anyone will reply ! :-) ----------- ADDENDUM: I forgot to mention it's a 3NT contract :-)

Is it possible to create INTO the " BPO - Bridge Poll Online" Section, several "subfolders", having one Subfolder for each Problem set ? This way, all the problems, the proposed answers and the following discussions would all be nested into a foldr pertaining to a single problem. It would be easier to navigate through the problem sets and hands. :-)

Sure. The logic behind this evaluation is that any hand that would bid game opposite a 10 count would open at the 1 level, even if it's not strictly a 14 count. I would say that any 6.5 losers hand or better opens at the 1 level, regardless of point count (of course, minors oriented hand should better be more careful to adopt the LTC, since often we would land in 3NT short of power). Similarly, they will open at the 2 level a hand that can make game opposite a responder holding a GOOD opening hand (good 12/13+, basically a 6.5 losrs hand or better- same requirement for 1 level opening), but that would NOT see game if responder had barely a 10 count or so. So, of course, the distinction between opening at 1 or 2 level is not purely Milton Work point count, but the overall hand quality. No. This is not Fantoni-Nunes system, although the agreement you suggest is playable. I have their original notes. In their original notes, opener, over a NF bid will: - pass with 3 cards and minimum - raise to 3M with 4 cards and minimum - raise to 4M with 4 cards and a max - bid 2NT with 3 cards and a max - rebid long suit or show second suit with 0-2 card support of responder's suit, regardless of min or max. This is their original system. Of course we are free to change it , but that's how it is. So, basically: 1) anytime opener has 4 card support he will raise; 2) anytime opener has 0-2 card support, he will rebid something else forcing to the 3-level. Of course this is key point, and the post was related to the consequences of using such an approach by F-N. It seems to me that adopting this priciples means that weak responder should pass more often, because he risks to force the bidding at the 3 level with a weak hand.

Does "Foolproof Rating system" mean that using such a rating we'll be able to get rid of fools ? If so, I'd vote for it, but my suspect is that any rating system is bound to have the opposite effect :-) Mauro PS- Quote of the day: "The mother of the idiots is always pregnant" (Indro Montanelli, italian journalist)

That was also my own view. A weak responder should have a VERY good reason to bid (e.g. a good own suit). A constructive responder may loosen up the requirements.

Consider that opener wil ALWAYS raise you to the 3 level if he has 3+ card support. Besides, if we adopt opener's 2NT rebid as "scrambling" (as you suggest- if I understood correctly -, while in the original F-N system , 2NT rebid by opener is a 3 card raise), opener will raise directly to 3S even holding 3 cards. Are you willing to drive to the 3-level opposite a (9+)10-13 opener, even risking a Moysian ? Opener might rebid 3C with no fit, if he has 54/55 in the minors. In F-N, 2S is not a scramble but natural. Here too, for both hands 3 and 4 are you willing to be raised automatically by opener with 3+ cards and a max, even if we are vulnerable ?

I pass. Maybe risking losing a NV game but avoiding severe penalty. LHO may still have a stack of hearts. With my spade length, pard is marked with shortness and will reopen if he's got anything useful

The policy vs 1NT opener and vs strong 1C should be different. Vs 1NT one should be VERY careful of avoiding large penalties, whereas vs strong Club, one should be as aggressive as possible (with a grain of salt watching vulnerability). The reason is that in the strong NT case, responder knows quite well the shape and range of pard. Especially, he expects opener to have a low ODR. In the strong club opening case, instead, opener may have A LOT of hand types, so, quite often, a premptive overcall will be harder to handle.

This hand should be included in the section about "Trump substitutes" of the book "Adventures in card play".... :-)

holding AQxxxx + another ace and a void makes the hand good to open 1H.

Hi all, I would like to have feedback from the BB Forum friends on the following issue raised by 2-level Fantunes openings. BACKGROUND I will skip the 2C opening, which has more room for exchanging info, and will rater focus on 2D/2M openings. The 2-level FN scheme to respond to such openings uses: 1. 2NT as positive relay (lately they have switched to 2S as positive relay over 2H opener) 2. new suit at the 2 level, as a NF bid guaranteeing ONLY a 4 CARD SUIT, offering a better contract. The 4 card suit can also be canapè. Opener, in turn is expected to act differently according to the support in the suit offered by responder. .......2a. with 0-2 card support, rebid naturally (either the long suit, or second suit) .......2b. with 3 card support, pass if minimum, bid 2NT if max .......2c with 4+ card support, raise to 3 if min, raise to 4 if max 3. new NON_JUMP suit at the 3 level is forcing, so cannot be used as NF bid ------ THE PROBLEM My new partner proposed that over a NF bid, opener should rebid 2NT with a misfit hand that is not sure of the safe spot (instead of using it to show a max 3-card raise). He suggested that with a max hand worth a raise, opener could simply raise at the 3 level with 3 or 4 cards. I am not very convinced of the use of 2SA as "scrambling": I objected to pard that responder should seldom be in a position to scramble. If he smells a misfit, he should tend to pass quickly pard's 2-level pening, even if he is short in it, anticipating the troubles rather than scrambling via NT to a 3-level contract, which can be much more easily doubled. I proposed the following strategy according to responder's strength: - 0-8 : responder passes also in misfit with parter. If he introduces a suit of his own despite being this weak, he must have at least HHxx (better if HHxxx) - good 9-12 (bad 13): responder bids his suit even if it's an ugly suit. There si still the possibility to find game if we find the right fit, so we must keep the bidding alive - very good 12/13 and stronger: responder uses the strong relay. Partner replied that, since F-N 2-level opener may be simply a 5 card suit xxxxx, there is a need to frequently propose a rescue bid with suits like Kxxxx, even if we are weak. I disagree, in the sense that I prefer avoid opening a FN 2 opening with 5431 and a 5 card empty suit; I may prefer to treat it as a weak NT opening. BOTTOMLINE AND FINAL QUESTION I would like from all of you suggestion for a. 2-LEVEL OPENING REQUIREMENTS We all know FN suggest (9+)10-13 hcp and unbalanced hands. (only exception 5422 with majors) But what about suit quality ? What would you open, vulnerable, holding: KQx-Txxxx-AKxx-x My idea is to consider a xxxxx suit as a 4 bagger, and to open in many cases 1NT with 5431 and an empty 5 bagger. Any thoughts ? what about, say, a slightly better suit, but not so great, e.g.: Kxx-Kxxxx-AKxx-x ? Would you open 2H vulnerable ? b. NON FORCING RESPONSES According to the requirements for the 2-level openings, how would you handle as responder the hands in the 0-7/8 hcp range in misfit with the opened suit ? E.g., suppose ur pard opens 2D how do u handle the following hands ? Consider that pard will not pass your NF bid if he has 0-2 card support, and he'll raise you with 4 cards and the minimum BASICALLY, THE QUESTION IS: SHOULD THE NF BID BE A RESCUE BID ? AND IF SO WHAT SUIT REQUIREMENTS ARE NEEDED ? hand 1 KQxx-xx-x-Jxxxxx This hand cannot rescue directly in a minor; 3C wd be forcing. It does has a decent 4 card suit though. hand 2 Kxxx-xx-x-JTxxxx This hand is a misfit in diamonds, but the spade suit is a lousy 4 bagger. Yet we might have a better spot than 2D. hand 3 JTxxx-Kxxx-x-xxx Here we have BOTH majors to offer, what strategy should we adopt ? hand 4 Qxxxx-xx-x-Axxxx Here we have 2 places to play, but should we risk that pard rebids diamonds at the 3 level ?

"From my perspective" (for once, let me use a sentence overused by Richard :ph34r: ), I do not see much of a difference from oldstyle NT openers and the "type 2". As far as I can see, even oldfashioned systems were build based on a skeleton founded on how to bid balanced hand-types: as a result, other sequences denied certain hands. It seems to me that the modern tendency to open NT with apparently offshape hands (4441, 5M332, 5422, 6m332, hands with stiff honors, etc) is just a result of the experts acknowledging that more often than not these shapes have the well-known characteristics of balanced hands (low ODR, etc etc), and has nothing to do with a phylosophycal shift in approaching NT openers. So, IMO, it's practicality, not phylosophy :-)

Great match and Vugraph show, well done to al 4 semifinalist teams. :ph34r:

I agree with all people saying that 7 may be too high. But it also might be laydown :ph34r: The point is thate WE DO NOT KNOW, so we should not be making ourselves the choice, but let partner choose, delivering him all the info we can. That's why I think there should a way for cooperative investigation, e.g.: there should be a way to show 3 top honors AND an extra feature. The "extra feature" (our club Q) may be the key for the grand, and the knowledge of it should allow partner to make an intelligent decision.

I think opening 1S this hand depends on the agreements with your partner. How many defensive tricks does ur pard expect for a 1-level opener in 1st/2nd seat ? A common agreement is that a 1-level opener promises 2+ defensive tricks. So if opps compete, our pard can count on 2 defensive tricks from us when he decides whether to double or not. ---- I am not going to say whether the agreement of 2+ def tricks is best or not, but I only want to state that THERE HAS to be an agreement on the minimum amount of defensive tricks. There are advantages and disadvantages of opening such a light hand: - you'll be able to open more often, and find a fit more often; - but on the other hand pard won't be able to X opps when you DO have a normal opener; besides, pard will have trouble deciding when 3NT is a good spot; ---- Having said that, I personally would open this hand only in 3rd seat; in 1st/2nd seat I'd open it only oif I have available some weak 2-suiters a la Muiderberg. (and I'd never open 3/4S). Sure, there are quyite a few hands where it works, but it seems to me that discipline usually keeps partner happy, and that's the best convention to me :-)

In similar situations, I strive to communicate ASAP support to pard. So I would not have doubled but tried to find the right systemic raise. After pard's 3C I bid 3H, which communicates to pard that I have support and a minimum for my previous X (about 8-9 hcp for neg X at 2-level).

The way I play, 5S asks to bid a small slam holding 2 top honors in trumps. Pard is not worried about anything else. With only 2 top honors I'd just bid 6S. Here I hold 3 top honors, so I will cue my club Q, showing 3 keycards and a feature: I bid 6C. However, it is a matter of agreement whether we should instead respond in steps showing: pass = 0-1 top honors in trumps; first step = 2 top honors+ some extras (features) ; second step = 3 top honors; 6 of the agred major = exactly 2 top honors, no extras.

Yes The underlying assumption is that most of the times, even with a 5-3 major fit (which cannot be found anymore without specific methods), the hand will play at least equally well in NT. So basically the idea is: "don't bother of the possibly lost 53 major fit". Of course we can find plenty of examples supporting this and its opposite :-)

There is a possible improvement to solve the difference of weak minor one suiters and invitational minors one suiter. If bidding goes 1M:1NT:2x:? Now the direct 3m is invitational, whereas 2NT is Lebensohl (puppet to 3C then pass/correct). Of course, in order to apply this, you have to put somewhere else the invitational balanced hand (since 2NT cannot be passed): the idea is to include in 1NT forcing the GAME FORCE balanced hand instead of the invitational (so that when pard puppets to 3C, you just bid 3NT). The invitational balanced goes via a 2/1 (switching the balanced GF and the invitational GF).

Hi all, I'd like feedback on this one :-) Assume you play 2/1 with conventional 4 card raises of a major. The scheme for the conventional 4 card raise can be either Bergen + J2NT, or Jacoby+ and Fitshowing raises. 3 card raises are shown as follows: a) very weak hand (say 0-7 hcp, or, better, more than 9 losers) bid 1NT forcing then signoff :P constructive raise (7/8-9/10 hcp, about 9 losers) Immediate single raise c) limit raise 1NT forcing then raise to 3 --------------------------------------- The above applies for the uncontested auction. In a contested auction, "standard 2/1" assumes that the single raise is not constructive anymore but can be as low as 6 hcp (even a good 5 occasionally). IF INTERFERENCE OCCUR AT THE ONE_LEVEL (up to 1 spades-inclusive), we play that responder uses transfers (1NT shows clubs, 2 clubs diamonds etc), and that the transfer into opener's major shows a constructive raise (8-9 hcp- 9 losers). The direct raise is the weak raise. So far, this has worked quite reasonably (also due to the fact that opener is limited to 15 hcp= we play Precision). -------------------------------------- THE QUESTION The problem arises when opps interefere with 2clubs or higher. Do you have a scheme or thoughts on whether it is possible (or recommendable) to differentiate constructive and weak raise ? E.g.: a. don't bother differentiate, just raise whenever you have support b. don't bother raising with the weak hand, you save the raise for your constructie bidding c. don't bother raising with the conbstructive hand, save the raise for destructive bidding; find another bid if you are constructive; d. differentiate the 2 bids as follows:....*HOW*...?

Ben, of course Hannie meant 23 ZAR POINTS !! *YOU* should better know this ! :huh:

Your dream (nightmare) means that is better to avoid reading Chamaco's post (expecially :huh: ) before going to bed! :P Some people would even say it's better to avoid PLAYING with me before going to sleep !!! :D PS- OSH had to put up with it quite often ;)