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there is little sense in risking a match or a monstrous swing with a 3n bid here. It might indeed make but the kinds of cards p needs to make it might also make 5 of a minor possible. 3n also pretty much eliminates finding spades unless p has a ton of them and couldnt bid over 3h. Preempts work keep using them but in this case better safe than sorry dbl

my methods of bidding have something to do with my decision to open 1c rather that 1n. My hand is shaped in a way that makes it better if p can become declarer (espcially in NT). Opening 1c and tailoring my bidding around what p does goes a long way toward what i hope is "rightsiding" our final contract (which we hope will be spades or nt).

playing your system --- I would bid 3s asking p to bid 3n with a spade stop. I do not want to sacrifice higher than 4d with this hand and I am willing to "risk" and undoubled down 2 or even 3 in 3n if p is min and has a spade stop. If p is near top 3n should have excellent play. the range of your 2d bid is pretty large and it make competitive decisions difficult and at IMPS we strive to bid vul games when we can. A simple 3d or 4d does little to inhibit opps from bidding the 4s we fear (it might do more to help them than hinder them). A 3s bid might. Pass is my second alternative and I would pass if the upper range of the 2d bid was just a tad smaller. I cannot get myself to pass here when there is still a fair chance we belong in game.

The simplest solution is to begin to begin with the concept that the heart suit is good enough that a "correction" to 5s would be meaningless. This leaves the 5s bid available as a cue bid for hearts and any grandslamming your side is going to do is off to a much better start. If all you have is KQJT98765 void xx xxx pass do not try and correct to 5s. If you have AKQJxxxx void xx xxx bid 6s if it doesnt make preempts work.

i also use leb but have one tweak that is especially helpful on hands like this. If p bids 2n (relay) i bid 3d to show a general lack of tolerance for clubs. This shows some extra values but not much and distribution/power is also limited by inability to use leaping michaels. If p bids 3c over my x i will trot out 3s and hope p can bid 3n because we are probably in trouble if they cannot. W/O my tweak to leb I have to admit to leaning toward 2n as the best description of my hand.

Pass I would have x for the minors over 1s with this hand and would not be facing this problem. Given the problem at hand it is reasonable for the x to ask p to look at their spade holding to determine if it is penalty or minor take out because the opps will almost never settle at the 2 level with 10+ trumps:). It wil be obvious to p that our x is TO on this hand but, even with the message being clear, I do not think bidding on is such a great idea. P has at least 5 hearts and is a strong candidate to have 3 spades that leaves only 5 minor suit cards to find us a fit. Exceedingly low degree of probability and forcing us to bid at the 3 level with no probable fit. There is also a huge risk factor involved with trying to play 2s X with not much upside and a huge downside since our side will rarely have a game to offset any 2s making. Save your X for hands with a clear cut penalty or more distribution or at least strongly consider the merits of making an x over 1s to show the minors.

I would have no trouble bidding 5c if p were to x 4h (using the theory that you dont pull the x unless you expect to make your bid). The problem with a direct 5c bid is that it creates a range of possible hands (for a 5c bid) that is so huge that it is unplayable. This is an especially bad idea when you are talking about vul hands at the 5 level and up huge IMPS are involved (lots of MP too).

p is missing almost everything except spades and it is diffcult to imagine this hand not having excellent play for 7s even though all we have is a singleton. 7n seems like it should also have a fair chance at success but if it goes down it might be by a TON and its hard to imagine 7s going down more than 1. p could have bid 4s 5s but went all the way to 6s so i am willing to take out a bit of insurance against a bad heart split and maybe still allow us to make 7s by maybe ruffing 1h and taking the rest. The extra advantage of being able to do a ruffing finesse with the heart T9 persuaded me).

5c (4c if it is avialable) There is no "rational" way to describe this hand.Playing 2/1 a go slow approach (bidding 2c) will cause huge headaches later in the bidding when p plays you to (gasp) have POWER for your 2c bid. While you are an ace short of a 2c bid your hand has significant offensive potential. IMO it is far better to bid 5c immediately than risk getting left in some plebian 1n contract that may easily go down more than 5c with none of the game benefits. I would use a 4c bid if I was sure it was available but playing WJS many pairs use 4c as a splinter with dia support. The main advantage of 4c over 5c is that slam exploration is still possible if p has a huge hand with no spade control and wishes to cue bid.

I realize i am self correcting======== The above logic is fine as far as it goes but it fails to take into consideration all of the latest information. The second round of clubs RHO follows with a small card. If it was the 6 then the original 3 card holdings are reduced to 74 KT6 T7 K64 If it was the 4 then the original 3 card holdings are reduced to 76 KT4 T7 K64 In both cases it has become a 5050 proposition. It has nothing to do with vacant spaces and little if anything (except at the beginner levels) to do with restricted choice. Cold hard deductive reasoning (apparently something i was not capable of after a ten day bridge layoff sigh)

trick 1 heart A trick 2 ruff a heart trick 3 club Q (pretty much forcing lho to play the A or K) trick 4 win whatever lho returns go about your business ruffing out the last heart and taking the dia finesse. The reason for playing a club at trick 3 is that we need another entry back to the dummy and we cannot play dia first since we open up extra ruff chances for the opps.

Sometimes it is just plain easier to understand a concept by using specific examples rather than just using generic cards. The opposing missing clubs are KT764. We need only concern ourselves with the best way to play the club suit WHERE WE HAVE A CHANCE TO GET IT RIGHT. This is importand because there are many club holdings where we have no chance no matter how we play the suit and those holdings are IRRELEVANT to our decision making process here. For us to have any chance at success rho must have started with 3 clubs (with the K) OR the KT doubleton. When we play the first round of clubs the K/7 disappear from the opps club suit and all that is left are the T64. When we play the second club and a small card comes from rho the KT doubleton chance is gone and all that is left is for the original club holding to have been: T7 K64 76 KT4 74 KT6 Assuming both opps are capable of randomizing their spot card play note that once the hands are reduced to 3 card possibilites the odds favor the finesse by 2/1 since there are 2 possible holdings for rho to hold the T and only 1 possible holding for LHO to hold the T. That means the original guess to drop the T doubleton was based on using the wrong logic at the right time. Lending further proof to the long standing theory "I'd rather be lucky than good".

see no reason why we cannot bid 3n here so I have little trouble bidding 2d (giving p room to show a 4 card major) and if all they do is show a min bid 3n. We can play this hand double dummy and it is hard to convince me the T9 of clubs arent worth at least a Queen.

to make 6 we need p to have essentially void x Kxxxxxx xxxxx x x Kxxxxxx Axxx there is almost no distributional leeway here so that is TWO hand out of umpty ump. It is such a tiny chance of reward that making it more difficult for the vul opps to find their black suit fit is much more important. This is a rare hand where we do not value p opinion of their hand and we merely bid what we think we can make while preempting as much as possible. 4H (even if we were togo down there is a huge chance the opps can make 4+ of a black suit and it will be a ton easier for them to bid if we pass or bid 3h).

ASSUMING 2/1 auction if the 2s bid shows 6+ I will immediately go to rkc and if we have the heart A and spade KQ bid 7s (IMPS because it may go down less when it fails) (7N at MP/BAM). If the 2s bid is 5+ I will bid 2n (MIKE777) (not 3h) because I want to give my p the chance to show me distribution (ie 3s to show 6+ and then 4n rkc same as before).

P failure to bid 4d over 4c will keep me out of 7. My hearts are so good that at MP I will convert to 6H expecting a top board at least 62% (and probably 83%+) of the time. At IMPS that same 62% isnt a sufficient reward to make up for the large loss of IMPS when we fail to make. We know there is a very strong chance p has at least 1 heart (which increases our chances at 6h to 83%) but +2/3 imps for being in 6h is a ton less exciting than -14 imps is damaging to the partnership stay put in 6c.

Opposite your p 17 max you are thining it is the "safe" thing to pass 1d since game chances are low and, unlike IMPS, there is no stong need to push for games. The problem is in BAM if your side ends up in 1d there is a strong chance you will end up losing the board since you are playing in the lowest scoring denomination. There seems to be little reason to avoid bidding 1h the first round even with xxx xxxxx Axx xx. (wank) points out that even if you pass the first round p heard the pass and has made a TOX of 1s. You have an over maximum xxx xxxxx Axx Qx with 100% of you hcp "working" you should take this opportunity to tell you p about your hand and a mere 2h might be as poor as xxx xxxx xx xxxx. Note the huge difference between bidding 1h the first time and passing. When I respond 1H my hand is at the minimum of my range but when I pass my hand is at the top and how we bid changes. If I had passed originally my hand has become so "good" I would bid 2s and convert either a 3c or a 3d bid to 3h. I do not think a 3h bid is right here mainly because our heat suit is especially putrid (great for poker) and by bidding 2s first then 3h we tell p of our ability to play elsewhere. A 3h bid here might be something like xxx KJTxx xx xxx.

While i see no reason p cannot be 4333 I agree that there is a very high% probability p has 4+ diamonds. As long as p will realize 3d is compeitive and x will show power I see little reason to worry about bidding 3d here. My major suit holdings make it very difficult for rho to x 3d due to tricks off the top and p will be able to play the hand double dummy. As long as we do not go down more than 2 there is a great chance we will be better off than is we meekly let them play 3c.

assuming the heart 7 held the trick i am going to try the dia J next there are an enormous number of variations depending on covers/switches. My main theme is to set up dia for discards and try and keep lho off lead to guard against a spade switch.

after seeing the many posts i have no clue what the problem was or what poll there was h0w about just deleting the post and satarting over:)))))))))))))))

I agree that playing 2d inverted is better than playing it weak and forcing us to bid 3c to show a limit + in dia (takes up too much space). We still have the benefit of searching for a 44 major suit fit, slam exploration, 3n and we do not have to gimmick with neg x which i think should promise at least 44 not 43 (why the 3 sheesh) in the majors. The one downside of the "practical" 3n is that it is far too easy for 5d to be the right place vs 3n since the opps have 8 hearts at a minimum and can easily hold more. It also seems a shame we never let p in on our dia support which allows them to immediately reevaluate the potential of their hand for dia contracts.

Noone mentioned this but would an immediate 2h bid over 1s show a hand similar to xxx KQJT9x xxx x??? while a delayed 2h (over 2c) would show a hand similar to the hand given (game interest)?? or is there insufficient difference btn these two hand types to use 2 bids to describe them? The play agree with PhilKing

It is impossible to assign blame here for missing a perfecto 7 so I would not concern myself about that. The real problem here is why did south bid 6s??? This is a huge overbid especially in light of the fact that the 2s (underbid) promises no more than xxx xx xxxx xxxx. The 2s bid narrows down rho hand to either a weak 2 in hearts or a strong balanced hand. While the odds strongly favor it being a weak 2 in hearts I mention this because even 4s is not guaranteed. Assuming you feel compelled to try for 6, once you realize rho probably has a weak 2 in hearts you will probably get the heart K for an opening lead. If that happens what cards can partner have that will allow you to make slam. Even if p has the dia AK you might still need some luck in the spade suit. If p does not have the dia AK or AQJ slam chances diminish considerably. Before deciding to just bid slam at least bid 4n and make sure p has the dia ace because without it slam will almost never make. This gives you a chance to stop in 5s and if you have decided to try for slam at least you wont go down off the top:))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) When a sequence is undiscussed you both have to revert to "standard" bidding concepts.

I would have bid 2n right away---those 4 clubs sure look like 5 to me. If p bids 3c I can convert to 3d to show my extra values 3d I can bid 3s to show my extra values and spade stop for a possible 3n 3h I can bid 3n 3s I can at least be sure p has great spade intermediates and can hazard 4s 3n I will probably settle for 3n but have a soft spot for any 4n quant bidders. 4c Surely p has at least 4 clubs so I will pass 4d Surely p has 4d so I will try 5d If the minors had been reversed I would have been forced to try a 2c bid but here I have the flexibility of my longer stronger suit being the higher level one so I take advantage of this situation. The other advantage of 2n vs say x is I am not encouraging spade bids so if p somehow throws spades in they have to be very nice spades (aside from KQ)

4n lets try for a minor suit fit. P has doubled twice opposite a silent p so they need a fair amount of values to bid like this vul. It is also way too easy for the 3h :natural: bid to be nothing much more than a lead director willing to go down 5 if undoubled and more than ready to run to 3s if doubled. I would rather trust p bidding (they were not forced to bid over 3s) than worry too much about what the opps are doing. Passing here when you are virtually certain p is short in spades is a recipe for disaster.