gszes

p heard our 1N and is still inviting game in hearts they are unbalanced and a pretty fair chance short in diamonds I bid 4h.

when the opps are in a bad contract and still have a reasonable place to run the best action is to pass and take your best score. The question is does that philosophy apply to this auction? I think yes. If you had a preemptive hand you probably would have passed or bid 5h. You bid 4h thinking it will make and thus your pass of 4s (it should be obvious to p either minor might be a great alternative to 4s) should be a willingness to play there. Save the x for another hand where there is nowhere else to run. I see a lightner inference mentioned but I cannot see how it applies to this sequence can anyone explain further???? I lost 5 imps with my pass ??? I hope all my decisions work out so well:))))))))))))))))))))))

first the majors then nt then the minors start with a simple 2d--we are a longgggg way from 5d and if p cannot make a move over 2d we have not missed anything. After 2d 3c which should show at most a partial spade stop and extra values and "stuff in clubs for nt". After that start we (assuming a 15-17 1NT) p probably has a balanced hand with around 18 and at most the spade Q (possibly QJ doubleton but quiet opps have a ton of spades) our combined 23 hcp (16 from p + our 7) outside of spades is just short of the 24/30 + a spade void) we aim for for 6d. On top of that we have the dia Q and heart J both of questionable use for slam bidding and it appears the best course of action is to avoid slam unless p has more stuff. The problem now is how to bid the hand properly. If we jump to 5d (our value bid) p will have no way of proceeding to 6 with 2 losing spades. IMO we start with 4s which tells p slam is possible and of our short spade status. It also tells p we were not strong enough to go to slam on our own so P should realize they need more than the minimum extra values to go to six. Here p should subside in 5d and that is sufficient.

there is little benefit to opening this collection 1d there is little /no defense and the dia bid itself says nothing useful. If the opps intervene to 4M before I get a 2nd bid how will p take a 5c continuation? strong or weak?? I would guess strong since you could have passed orginally and backed in with 4n with a weak hand. Passing now makes it a ton easier to show both suits at once if opps bid and if p opens/overcalls M we will probably be better served taking it easy because of the obviously wasted values in p hand. I would not open 4n to show minors with this type of hand it is too unilateral. There is no reason to assume we are either safe at the 5 level or that the opps can make anything it is merely a bid that prefers gambling to efficiency. The same arguments hold for a 2d opening (at least 2d doesn't promise defense). Once you decide to go down this road your partnership will never be able to make rational competitive decisions again because the range of possible hands is too huge. You would not open 1n with a range of say 12-19 balanced because there is no rational way to decide how to proceed. Rules are nice but let's not lose sight of what we are trying to accomplish with the bidding. void void QJxxxxx KJxxxx another rule of 20 that is even worse than the proposed hand is that a 1d opener also??? You and your partner decide.

4d should be a no other good choice bid with a hand like KJxx KQ QJxx Kxxx or some such where rebidding 4n looks bad-- while this is unlikely this type of usage can save you from some very poor contracts.

echo pass since p should be showing a min they had xx and pass they could have used to show extra values.

It matters nothing to me if p is weak or strong, slam is great opposite as little as x AKxxxx Axx xxx or x AJxxx Axxx Axx and has no play opposite x QJxxxx AKQ AKQ I think this is the time to go straight to 4n taking the risk the 5 level isnt safe-If p cannot show at least 3 key cards stop at the 5 level. Depending on vulnerability (not shown), this method could also make it very difficult for the opps to find a great minor suit sacrifice.

The more wide ranging (erratic) a bid is the less likely p will ever know what to do. This hand is a perfect example where anything you decide to do is a complete guess and any further competitive bidding that occurs will leave you with a complete guess. MP 4S who knows what will happen but the opps will be guessing as much as you are and there is little sense in assuring your side a poor result. IMPS 5S opps can make anywhere btn 3 and 7 and i have not a clue where. It seems that taking out some insurance with a further blocking bid is best overall. 4S is possilee but we will be opening a can of worms if the opps compete further possibly making it easier for them to bid slam.

No matter what I need some luck but this requires less than any other line. I intend to finesse the heart if LHO follows --if they sluff rise with A and clear the suit. This leaves all options open and only requires 1 dia ruff to make (plus some luck in opps club length ie rho being short).

4s All we need is good spades and a club honor from p to have decent play for game. Rho is probably going to have a lead problem (either reassuring us our heart honor(s) are valuable or into p).

My finger slipped and typed x vs the heart J anyway the point I was trying to make was in their system they have a 4n bid to show 2 places to play. The 4n bid can be used to show a minimum 2 places (which has to be the minors since hearts are irrelvant after no neg x) to play hand with the minors and a 5c bid to show a min with club support and a 5d bid to show a min w/o club support. We would not want to bury club support since we have no idea how high p might wish to go. Assuming the partners are using the information the same way (it appears so since 5c was considered weaker than 4n) then when 5s is x I think it is right to pass.

At IMPS I will open 1D since I want to be able to invite a thin game if p can bid 1H or 1S (and we will have probably right sided the contract since I have no honors to protect). At MP I open 1N (number 1 MP spot) since bidding thin games is a losing MP tactic.

While i think your 4c was a tad optimistic it has helped quite a bit with this hand. Assuming 4n would have been clubs and diamonds with a distributional hand (noone would care if it was the reds) the 5c bid can be made with say Kxx KQx Qxxx Axx bidding 5c here shows the min nature of hand and does not hide the club fit like a 5d bid would have. Once 5s occurs and p x we must assume this is a way of showing wasted values in spades while a pass would show no wasted values in spades. Given these circumstances and your bidding methods I think pass is the right call.

IMO 2h in both cases says please pick something other than 2d pass does not want to bid 3d can at least stand 2d not strong enough for xx 3d weak 4135 type hand blocking xx says i LIKE that 2d bid my hand just improved a lot and maybe we should be considering game or xing whatever the opps try and run to. It seems illogical for p to suddenly have a game forcing hand after bidding 2c. We should concentrate our efforts on obtaining the best MP score we can especially if we are going to be playing in diamonds.

Finally a hand that makes one happy to be a bridge player and not a chess player. Why (in pairs) did my partner run from the number 1 MP spot of 1n to (arguably one of the worst MP spots) 2c? Since our p is presumably on our side we have to suspect that their hand has some form of (serious?) distributional flaw that makes playing in the number 1 MP spot (i think i mentioned that before) seem wrong. Aside from the distributional problem there is also the added problem of how strong p is. The range of the 2c bid can be dead minimum all the way up to a unbalanced NT power hand. Since we are far from minimum with our 2 quick tricks and maybe even a helpful J in p spades it might be beneficial for our side to keep the bidding open so p can express more power than they could over our 1n response. IMO while a pass of 2c might be the only way of keeping things from getting worse, I will normally strain to keep from playing 2c because of its low ranking on the MP scoring list (dead last maybe?). This hand has the options of 2d and 2h available for those of us that are straining to reach a higher level on the MP scoring table than 2c. 2h easily has the chance of scoring the best overall because it is the only strain where game might be available. Not only that 2h is right near the top of the MP scoring list. I think 2h is fatally flawed here however since we could easily be going from a 52 club fit to a 50 heart fit (and lousy hearts to boot). Not only that but if we were to choose the next bid we could still end up in hearts. I recommend we try 2D No better than 2c on MP scoring list we at least have the comfort to know that in a dia contact there is a fair chance our trick production may soar all the way to 5 tricks from a mere 2 tricks in any other contract and (since p can bid 2h with a 5305 hand) we do not have the same fear of being stuck in a 50 fit like we could be if we chose 2h. The 2d bid also keeps the door slightly open for 3n. If p can pipe up over 2d and bid 2n our doubleton club (partner has to fear a misfit) might now help establish club tricks and allows us to bid 3n. If p really hates our 2d bid and bids 2h we can now bid 3h (since p will rarely choose a 2c rebid over a 2h rebid with a 5404 hand) p will realize we probably have at least 5 (crummy) hearts (and at least 5 dia) for this bidding and still some reason to look for game. We opt for the 2d bid because there are so many ways our score can improve by not passing.

this hand i would pass but its mainly a matter of gross diamonds even out the power btn the minors and i have little trouble with a 1d opener.

1N its a point short but the extra club length makes up for it on top of that it helps protect two Kx holdings if we win the bidding. I sure dont want to open 1c and rebid 2c which can be done with a king less than we have and we arent that close to a 3c rebid.

I pass this hand however to show how close I am to opning it change the hand to A92 T754 KT95 A6 and I become proud of my 1D opening that is enough to sway me. I will also "stretch" my opening bids when i have both 4 card majors.

Thats my route definitely worth a slam try. Chalk up at least this one for 2n showing the minors :)

The 4s bid appears wrong. While you have enough to drive to game you have a club control you are failing to show p and an easy slam can be missed. I would save 4s for a hand like Axxx QJx QJx xxx where u are min but have a hand most likely to work well opposite p (after the 2c bid on your right). Another option is non serious 3n when p bids 4c you bid 4s and p will know slam is a bad idea. Given the bidding and the announced minimum the 5c bidder should have realized you needed all of your power outside of clubs AND it needed to be aces not quacks in order to have a dcent shot at slam. This was probably too optimistic. If no 3n bid was available then there was too much risk searching for slam given the bidding.

Not sure why this is posted but I disagree with 25% 3n. If spades break 43 the opps can never score more than 3 spades and a club. If we assume spades break 52 (if they break 61 ducking the first spade scores 10 or 11 tricks no matter who has the club K) we merely duck the first spade and at worst 3n is 5050 depending on which player has the club K. Ducking the first spade makes sense here because we have no reasonable LOP for taking a finesse into the hand with the long spades.

hearts may be the most natural lead but w/o an x, if your p has a reasonable alternative, they will most likely choose that vs a heart.

I'll be there however you decide to partner players is fine with me.

see no reason for 4h to not be auto splinter since it is so easy to bid 3h and rebid 4h. There is really no reason 4h should be natural here.

as i look at this hand i wonder----since there are two acceptable places to play 3n and (with my super 5 card heart suit 4h) is there any downside to bidding 3d (I realize its not a suit hehe). If p has both black suits stopped we play 3N. If p has heart support we play 4H. If p does not have both black suits stopped we play 4H even if its a 42 fit. If p has a dia fit and decides to cue bid (or raise to 4d) does 4H always indicate reds and slam interest or can it be my heart suit is good enough to play 4h and maybe its better to play there than diamonds (after we looked for 3N first of course). I realize there are some hands where 4h will fail and 3n make and vice versa when opener does not have both black suits stopped. My query is more along the lines of lets find game first then delve into slam. Is it unreasonable to see if 3n is more acceptable this way (since we have 4H as an alternative). Would this bidding sequence be more acceptable if one held x AKQTx Axxx xx???? If yes does the lack of a 4th dia reallly change the nature of the hand that much to make bidding this was non viable? Please don't just give me platitudes like im balanced wih 5 hearts 3N is the only way to go. If this idea bites give me some strong reason(s) why it should be avoided.