Jinksy

I feel like a fourth spade would be a slight negative for west's double. Assuming it's basically just showing values and no fit, on shapes like 4423, mightn't he prefer an initial 4♦? The double is presumably going to get passed fairly frequently.

The PoorBridge crowd used to advocate a system I yearn to play with a willing partner: XX is for blood. Pass forces XX, which is for blood. Look into the whites of their eyes, and see who's most likely to cave under the pressure of the passout seat I'm told it works less well online.

Just cold in the sense that you'd be right on the lie of the cards to play the hand with fewer diamonds for the Q♣.

I would assume he has at least 6 reasonable hearts for a 3♥ bid over 3♦.

Well, I was the offending hand :unsure: Part of why I passed was not really knowing what my subsequent calls would mean (or how P would take them). What forcing bids do I have available here? Are jump shifts showing a hand like this, or a single-suiter that was planning to bid over anything?

That's a worst-case scenario, but there are plenty of other bad ones - the obvious one being 3♠ is making 9 tricks (~6 IMPs away). But we could also drift an extra trick off (~3 IMPs away), get doubled in 4M and go one off (~8 IMPs away), push partner into overbidding (he might not play us for much, but he's unlikely to play us for a hand this weak, since even if we can have it by specific agreement we're comparatively unlikely to) when we would have been in game anyway (~13 IMPs away), and various less likely scenarios (eg pushing them into 5♦=). Obviously I can't know what this adds up to in expectation, but some bad result is hardly unlikely.

This seems backwards - any points partner has are under opener's, so (while I agree it's a highly cherry-picked hand) it looks more likely to be three off to me - and chances of being doubled are quite high when we bid to the four-level with this few points and things aren't friendly.

I would limp into 3♠. I like the general principle of bidding a level too high to establish the right fit, but I feel like 4♦ would be bidding two levels high. What does partner do on this auction with eg Qxx AQx xx AQJxx? Apparently I'm old before my time <_<

There are no guarantees, but I like to play 3♠ over 3♦ as concern about either or both of the black suits. Opener can bid 3N with something in both of them or something particularly substantial in either. Here with only a single stop between the two (and it being an ace), I'd then bid 4♥.

At the very least if you're determined to give him the benefit of the doubt, move it to another forum - I suggest Novice and Beginner.

Pass. I suspect they'll make, but bidding could make it a lot worse. At least I have a defensive trick, which I haven't exactly promised.

I don't know if they're making 4♥ - I'd like to include partner in the decision.

+1 for 4♦. Constructively I suspect it's the wrong bid, but if I do anything else, I'm not going to be happy when 4♥ comes back around to me.

[hv=pc=n&w=sj82hq752dj5cajt5&e=skq97hakt98dack82&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=2dd3ddppp]266|200[/hv] Woops. IMP pairs, but 3 diamonds drifted one off, while with the Q♣ where you'd expect it, 6♥ was cold. Who's (more) to blame, and what should have happened?

Playing it as artificial or not, over 2♣, 2♦ looks like south's best rebid to me (I don't see why you'd ever prefer 2♠). It leads to a convoluted auction, but if you're on the same wavelength should be ok: 1♣ 1♥ 2♣ 2♦ 2♥ 2♠* 2N 3♥** 4♦ ? * FSF ** The easiest way to set Hs and GF At this stage south can try various things, but since north has all the cards he's looking for, he should end up in a grand. If I trusted my P I would opt for (4♦) 4N*** 5♣ 6♣**** 7♣ Pass or 7N *** RKCB for hearts **** Asking for the QC (since we could ask for specific Kings with 5N)

Also helps to consult a Monty Hall simulator: http://www.stayorswitch.com/

Well if anyone cares, the full hand is here: https://app.pianola.net/Results/Session100273/Travellers/1 There wasn't any kind of moral to it. My P put me in 3N after my 2N opening, where I managed to go off 2. I thought he should have put me in either 3 or 4 hearts, and I should probably have pulled when he didn't.

Yeah, I think it's not that big a loss. The 5H5S hands are the main problem, and there's no analogous issue where you open 1m with a 5cM on the side.

I was mainly envisaging me + regular vs you + regular - I started playing before Jacobs released his book, so have a very different system to anyone else who plays it (eg we still play the second 1♣ scheme here). Re the rest, obv YMMV. I've found the competitive edge from full strength openings to be very helpful (and I agree that 'The knowledge of opener having a major or a good hand is an improvement over standard,' but that doesn't mean it's not substantially better still to know that it must be a good hand - even when they're competing in the other major). Also I find the 'loss' of a natural 2N is barely a loss at all. On most hands, we probably do better in expectation from starting at a low level. The main cost is using sequences to show those hands that we could have used for other hand types, but they're typically highly distributional 2-suiters (in the versions I've seen) that will be substantially rarer than our 2N hand type (or than a natural 2N opening), and often powerful enough that they can look after themselves.

Assuming South's bidding shows roughly 5-9 points, I don't think that's a 2N bid.

I didn't realise you played it Phil. Want a Fantunes vs Fantunes game on BBO sometime? As for weaker 1M, I don't know your system so can't comment on it directly, but IMO playing 1M openings as 11-37 has three typical problems. In increasing severity: 1) Invitational non-fit auctions: after eg 1M 1N / 2♥*, at one of you is going to have an awkward range. If responder doesn't bid 2N on most 8-9 counts, or if opener doesn't bid 2N after simple preference on most 16-17 counts, you're going to miss a few games. If either of them does bid on such hands, you'll (respectively) frequently** find yourself in 20-21-point 2N contracts/occasionally find yourself in 16-19-count 2N contracts, doubled if the opps have been paying attention. * Or whatever system you use to show both majors with opener ** Frequently given such an auction, I mean. I realise this isn't that common a sequence 2) Invitational fit auctions: most versions of Fantunes seem to end up at the three level on 5-3 fits uncomfortably often. I spent some time looking at Fantoni-Nunes' actual bidding sequences over 1M (can't find the site now, but there was one with records of hundreds or thousands of hands they'd played, searchable by sequence), and they noticeably overbid on this hand type. 3) Competitive auctions: IMO the biggie - we have frequently had such auctions as 1M (4m) 4M pay dividends in either making or being good competitive score, where 4M is on something like a decent 8-count with 3-card support, and opener couldn't have acted again. Even at lower levels, after eg 1M (2-level bid) P / or 1M (3-level bid) P /, opener often has a difficult decision with eg a 16-17 count. I found these the nightmare hands in Acol, where half the room has opened a strong NT, and you have no sensible way of telling who the contract belongs to. One of my favourite things about Fantunes is getting to play a weak NT without this issue, and in general with being well placed in competitive auctions, but on all the wider range hands you're going to have tougher high-level decisions. In the first two cases you can presumably mitigate the problem with relays but a) relays with always come with a cost of losing something else, and b) you can still play relays if you open a full-strength 1M and get the same benefits.

For the (few) others still playing a Fantunes-y system, this is something I've developed in response to a) the problem of side majors in 2-bids/super-wide-ranging 1-bids, and b) the problem of any kind of constructive auction after the 2♠ opening. Our 1M-bids are always up to strength (or at least, never systemically downgraded to 11+). They include 21-22 point balanced hands (as does our 1♣ opening) Our 2M-bids can have a 4cM side suit. Opposite them, with a marginal invite that needs 4 of the other major to justify being in game, we normally pass. This doesn't seem to be nearly as bad as some people think - usually when we might have found a marginal major game, we're mostly compensated in expectation by being 2 levels lower. Our 2N opening* shows 5+ spades and 5+ (hearts or clubs), and the same playing strength as an opening 2-bid. * At least in first and second seat - in third and fourth we still play it, but it loses some value (probably most in that it's much less likely that holding this hand, the bidding will have been passed to you than earlier in the auction). We used to play 2N as hearts and a minor, but I gradually found that a) at the strength we play it, it was often a constructive bid rather than a preempt - that is, the opps rarely profited from having a 2♠ overcall when we opened 2♥ on these hands, and b) having hearts as an anchor suit didn't quite give enough room to bid all reasonably common hand types constructively, and c) it was the 2♠ opening that suffered (by far) the most from lack of space anyway. Obviously you can play whatever continuations you like, but these are ours, playtested as well as I could with a BBO bidding practice room, my best attempt to analyse counterfactual auctions, and a lot of patience for that kind of thing: 3♣: pass or bid 3♦. Partner can now pass with a long diamond suit, or correct to 3M (or occasionally bid on, if your heart suit inspires him) 3♦: asks about hearts, either because P has a long suit of his own, or because he has game/slam aspirations that might be conditional on you having hearts (and if the former, prefers 3♠ to 3♣) 3♥: just asks for the second suit. Since 3♦ is a heart ask, the assumption is if P's aspirations are limited to game, he's interested in game iff opener has clubs. 3♠: to play 3NT: a slam try in whichever is opener's second suit. 4m: a natural slam try 4M: to play *** After 2N 3♦ __ 3♥ shows heart tolerance, ie 2-3 hearts* __ 3♠ denies heart tolerance, ie 0-1 hearts __ 3NT shows a heart side suit * I'm interested in using 4♣ as a pseudo-superaccept showing exactly 5305 shape, but we're not doing this atm. After 2N 3♥ __ 3♠ shows hearts __ 3N shows clubs If opener has a real freak - ie 6-5 with reasonably substantial suits, he can optionally invent an 'impossible' response to any of responder's calls - given that 4♠ is basically never sane, you can figure these out on the fly. *** Generally, responder's (forcing) calls always give the options of slam in two denomination: spades and hearts after 3♦, clubs and spades after 3♥, and clubs and hearts after 3N. After the first two, responder's next bid will (if not a signoff) set the trump suit for cueing. After the latter, opener bids 4♣ to set that, or starts cueing for hearts. In terms of bidding efficiency, I make it very close in probability to a 21-22 2N opening (the standard Fantunes use), though the likelihood of you actually getting to open it conditional on holding it drops quite fast the later you are to open it. The main advantages of opening 2N are i) competitive auctions when they do come up, ii) finding thin games that the rest of the room might miss after (eg) 1♠ 1N / 2♥ P, and iii) rightsiding/getting to game with minimal information leak after 2N 4♠. The main disadvantages are predictable - i) you sometimes end up too high on part score hands, and ii) you can occasionally not have the room for slam bidding that you'd have got from opening lower (though obviously opener having defined his hand so closely helps) But the main advantage IMO is taking these hands out of the 1M/2M openings. Obviously opening 2M with them is disastrous, but opening 1M with 11+ hands causes all kinds of headaches that opening 2N with these hands helps you avoid (assuming you're willing to pay the extra price of opening 2M with 5-4 in the majors). You lose the natural 2N opening, but I'm not convinced it's worse to open those at the 1 level anyway, since you can do so forcingly.

I don't think I'd bid on on any of them. We need several things to be true for it to score well: 1) 5♠ has to be making (or 1.1, 6♦ has to be, but that seems so remote as to be ignorable) 2) 6♦ has to be at most 2/3 down 3) They have to not be bidding and making 6♠ when we push them and 4) Few people in the room can be buying it in 5♦(x) - if they are, we're already marked for a bottom 1 seems reasonably likely, but hard to be tremendously confident in, presuming our 2NT can be a wide range of strengths. 2 again seems pretty likely, but far from certain 3 is probably the factor I'm most scared of. If they need trumps to behave, they will be. This is probably a bigger factor when we're NV, as either opp looking at xx in Ds might not have placed their P with definite shortage, but after a 6/5 bid they'll surely be able to (also, if they're reasonably confident they're not beating it by 4 tricks and that they were making 5♠, they might be forced into bidding it just to give themselves a chance to avoid a bottom) 4 is really hard to judge the odds of, and probably requires a bit of opp-reading - eg how long did E think before bidding 5♠? But I'm rarely going to be confident about this either way

I tend to like opening 1N whenever I can, so I rarely upgrade out of the range (and there are hands I'd open 1N playing either weak or strong NT), specifically to avoid having uncomfortable high-level decisions at bid 2. With Qxx and Kx both looking quite ugly here I wouldn't bother upgrading. Still, given the crap I know you open and rebid 1N on, I guess upgrading this makes a lot more sense for you :) In that case though, isn't it partly just a price you pay for opening weak hands? Preempts work, but they work better the wider range of hands the preemptees can have. That said, how likely are you to have a void D? Presumably you'd rebid 3H or 3S if either seemed plausible in preference to 3N, so your hand would have to be 5305, which looks unlikely or impossible from South's hand, depending on E's preempting style. Still, given your weak openings, if 3N is consistent with (say) QJxxx Axx x Kxxx (or even if you need to add a random jack), maybe the N hand is worth a 4D bid? Assuming S's GF has taken into account weak openings, he presumably will have a pretty solid hand, so it's hard to imagine 5♦ having no play even in a 5-2 fit. And maybe you can still get out in 4N? So, after dithering, I'm going with, South 25%, North 50% (two questionable decisions to S's 1 :P), bidding style 25%.

[hv=pc=n&w=sha9dakq86cj98752&e=sakj987hq6432d7c3&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=p]266|200[/hv] IMP pairs. Not posting this with a specific question - or rather, I have *all the questions*. It just seemed like the proverbial interesting bridge hand. So, points for discussion: 1) What would your actual auction be? 2) Looking at both hands, what contract would you choose to be in? 3) How would you play that contract - a) If they begin by cashing a top club (S would lead the A, N would lead the 6 to S's Q) and then switching to a D? b) If they begin by leading a diamond? (S would lead the 3, N playing the 5 under your honour, N would lead the J)