BillPatch

A UCB with 8 hcp makes some sense opposite an opening bid which promises either extra HCP or extra distribution over the WNT opening bid. An overcall does not promise as much; so the UCB must have at least LR strength, enough to raise the strong NT rebid to 3NT, stoppers permitting.

The relevant definition of Misunderestimated here seems to be messed up because they underestimated. I do not know if it's a real word, so would probably challenge it at Scrabble.

Here in North America it is common to divide bridge courses according to the Teaching books of Amy Grant of the US or Barbara Seagram of Toronto, often using their texts. Blackwood and Gerber are given rudimentary coverage in book one for Grant's course on bidding. In the fourth course in the series on Commonly Used Conventions Blackwood is reintroduced and RKC added. The syllabus also includes some more discussion about when 4NT is asking, when natural, and when unusual. The earlier courses are taught more often, but at least 4% of the bridge classes taught at the adult level are for the conventions level. Since the two large English speaking countries in ACBL have so many bridge players, I doubt gwnn's 99+% of bridge classes worldwide is accurate. Perhaps later I will develop some curiosity about bridge teaching outside the ACBL and do some really relevant research for the bridge world. Fortunately, I have more pressing matters on my queue right now. Thanks everyone, for your enquiries about this inane poll. I particularly thank those who respond to my poll.

Perhaps in China you bid 4♦ with a Queen high suit and expect to be doubled and since you have no quick tricks, you expect to lose 13 tricks and all the IMPs. In the West we fear losing telephone numbers and thus tend to bid 4♦ only with such a long suit with some top honors so that 4♦ doubled vulnerable will probably not be worse than the other side's potential game. We would expect partner to have 8+ diamonds to the AQ since we have the K. Also, the AKQxxx is likely to take more than its two quick tricks if our side is declaring in diamonds or spades. One normally uses Quick tricks only for an estimate of defensive tricks possible in the non-trump suits, or to determine whether to open a borderline hand with one of a suit or a weak NT.

Yes. Kokish has popularized the treatment of the natural 2NT one-round force on this and similar auctions where partner has implied 6 or more in a minor at he 2 level.

Badger, I forgot to ask? Are you from the British Commonwealth? For the poll. If we don't get an answer I will assume yes, since the badger is endemic to UK. The reason I ask for the British Commonwealth info is that I have played bridge for the last forty years, mainly in the US, and here US players would know that the standard w/o discussion would be their agreed form of Blackwood. I was surprised by the number of British votes for Natural, and curious about how widespread that treatment was. In much of the British Commonwealth acol is the standard teaching system(not so much in Canada where Barbara Seagram teaches SA). I am conducting this poll both to satisfy my curiosity and also as a service to the bridge world. Come back, Wombatica. All is forgiven! I am curious about your background.

However, Wombatica, when you improve and reach the intermediate level, you will learn that if partner next bids 5NT, ostensibly asking for kings, he is also promising your side has all the A's and asking you bid 7NT if you have an independent source of tricks. Here that would be a solid diamond suit.

And I was just playing the straight man. :rolleyes:

Agreement to reopen only the perfect 4-4 or the imperfect 4-3 majors is too conservative for Bergen, Bourke. Op.cit. p. 44. Their examples for Imperfect doubles on this auction. ♠ A9854 ♥ KQ7 ♦ 98 ♣ 865 & ♠ A2 ♥ KQ75 ♦ J643 ♣732 Note that the 2-4 hand has 10hcp and 4♦ in order to rebid 3♦ when partner rebids the wrong major.

Case_no_6, Sorry, you and ggwhiz seem to be in a distinct minority here in your opinion that the cue bid as the 2 and 1/2 spade bid is standard. Do you have any books or articles in major bridge journals to justify your claims?

While I no longer consider N's 2♦ in such a positive light, surely his final pass after partner encourages is far worse, and is the proximate cause of missing game for a bottom score.

I didn't care, until about a minute ago I looked up "wombat". It is indigenous to "Oz", the giant island south of New Guinea. They play acol there. There is therefore a high chance that wombatica is aussi and plays acol. Therefore the need for updated info on acol has become more urgent. The brave wombatica was willing to face being shot in order to achieve bridge enlightenment. The least those in the British Commonwealth can do is answer the poll. I apologize to those who find my flippant humor offensive, especially the remark about the two royal majesties. There are technical reasons that Dutch Acol has developed separately from acol in the English speaking countries, and that is the reason I rejected the Dutch entry.

Sorry, at this vulnerability I expect the club loser and only go to the 5 level in hearts over the TO Double to try for slam. Perhaps the wild preemptors in Europe play "Colors are for children." Present company presumably excepted. Here the preemptors are usually crazy only at green (NV vs V). (I have not seen the preempting hands, so I can't judge whether it's luck or skill.) Also 3 clubs is quite lower than 3 of a major, a TO double can promise less, particularly with club shortness. Grand slam is not in the picture.

Thank you. The other questions Wombatica asked were about Blackwood, in particular the auction 4♦(pass)4NT. I mm polling the acol countries in particular, in case Wombatica plays acol. Wombats are not native here, I suspect they are or were native to the Empire.

Sorry Dutch Acol is not part of the acol empire. Wrong Queen. So this doesn't count in my poll. The question before us was not whether we hate the opening, but whether this obscenity deserves the death penalty for the first offense.

Wombatica at great risk has come from the novice board seeking enlightenment. Obviously he would not have made an obvious mistake if he had your knowledge. Enlighten him!

With a visitor from the novice board who only mentions Blackwood, you assume too much. Are you from the acol empire? I am doing an informal poll.

The latin suffix and unfamiliarity with the English idiom allows us to deduce that zilla is not from the three English speaking countries in the ACBL. George Rosenkranz is the only Mexican I have read in the realm of bridge. I doubt Romex is the country's standard, bt have no direct knowledge. So I bet zilla comes from a country that has not come from a Western Q bid country.

2♥ is a reasonable alternative. It works well here, where partner made a reasonable underbid with his 2♦ rebid, and then seems to have lost his mind when you encouraged. If partner is frequently such a Milquetoast, perhaps such a distortion as 2♥ is justified to encourage partner. But 2♥ has other drawbacks in addition to the heart shortness you noted above. Culbertson wrote that one should underbid, not overbid with an underbidder, in hopes of a cure. But Culbertson was an incorrigible optimist. More seriously your bid shows 5 spades and encourages a raise if partner has 3, which you do not want. Also, your bid is unlimited, and partner might mistakenly overbid to explore alternative strains. The hand is more interesting at IMPs, where the lure of larger rewards on slam hands and the lesser demerits for playing a minor game contract would have encouraged more slam tries. At matchpoints regardless of the choice opener takes with his first rebid, all roads lead to 3NT, except for a few cases of mind omission. I hope your partner recovers quickly.

Who cuebids? After what other bids?

Thank you for your continued support. Counting to thirteen cards is one of the most important exercises in the upper levels of play or defense. But I prefer the counting tool on the Bridgeinners site to your method of fingers and toes. My problem is I feel like a failure as a bridge teacher when I specify that one hand is wrong with 14 cards and the student goes to another hand and adds a fourteenth card.

mikeh-Congratulations on the over 10,000 posts. You are one of my favorite bridge writers, based entirely on these forums.

Unfortunately, I do not subscribe to the bulletin of the Brighton tournament. Therefore, give us the hands, so we can see how much a risk your dear English experts took by bidding the NV game rather than the Vulnerable penalty. Not my cup of tea.

One fifth of a point is the proper value for that stiff Q, both before and after one round of bidding. Your other arguments have convinced me of the superiority of the 3♦opener's rebid, with or without said Q. You have won a convert, Still, after responder's rebid of 3 hearts at match points, I see no normal alterative to continuing 3NT, which responder should accept as a final contract, so we will still end up barely above average.

The question I ask is not what you play, but what do others in the acol empire play? Although another expert British vote for natural may help Wombatica, God rest his soul.