Responder could probably have 5+ clubs since 2♣ would be nonforcing for most. Responder could possible have a fit since for some there is a gap between 2♦ and a constructive raise (2NT, 3♣, or whatever we play), which can be filled by redbl followed by bidding diamonds. Responder certainly doesn't need game values although his 2♠ bid does show game values. If he doubles, passes or bids diamonds as his next turn he may have less than game values. But indeed I think most wouldn't have a 5-card major. So assume for example you hold with your partner opening 1♦: ♠ AKxxxx ♥ xxx ♦ xx ♣ AJ Bidding starts 1♦ --(DBL) -- ??? --(Pass) 2♦ --(Pass) --??? How do you describe such a hand if RDBL denies a 5 card major? Rainer Herrmann I guess the NON-forcing 1♠ call has gone out of fashion. I prefer to play XX means it is our hand and shows invitation + values (where is not yet clear) while ANY call over the X is NON forcing.