hotShot

A clear case of LAW 34.

The question is not: would/could/should you open this 4♠. It is what does your partner expect you to have for opening 4♠. If your junior opens 4♠ with: JTxxxxxx x Qxx x Compared to that, the discussed hand is to strong for 4♠. Partner acts based on his expectation of the hand. If he agreed to "weak" 4 level openings he needs to be stronger to act. Obvously opener here expected partner to hold ♠AK, otherwise (as Ben poited out) he should not bid 6♠, because he has only 2nd round control in ♥.

100% blame for west. After agreeing to play ♠, he has to bid 6♠. The only reason to enter a cuebid sequence is to investigate distribution. So any cuebid given here might also be given with shortness. I might be willing to reduce the blame to 80%, because east should downgrade his hand after the 3/4♣ bid. East should have tried to stop in 4♠, but with the stiff ♥ and 5 trumps there is still a chance sto make slam, with a ruffing finesse and a crossruff.

1♦. I count 4 looser and with only 16 HCP i don't think that partner and opps will pass first round so i'll always have the chance to bid again.

The auction 1♠ - pass - pass indicates that opener has very strong hand, or that partners only suit is ♠ too, so he can't show his true strength. A short look into his hand should reveal to the bidder, which of these is more likely. If he holds a ♠ length his partner will be weak. In most cases it will be a good idea to pass, so that your 20 unbalanced points with a little help from your partner will not make a full game. With a strong hand and a strong partner dbl might be a good idea. Preemptive bidding makes no sence at all, because opps will miss game, if the hand is passed. 3♦ shown a hand with a lot of diamonds and it is very likely that it is short in ♠. This type of hand is a problem in 4th seat, because the 2nd seat partner now may be strong with ♠. An inexperienced player might want to preempt now, but this is not a good idea. I would expect a good and long ♦ suit 6+, perhaps a side entry. Intending to play 3NT, if partners ♠ and stopper are good enough.

Any licenced TD will have to enforce the WBF Bridge Laws and the WBF sytem policy Wilkosz and your modified Wilkosz is a Brown Sticker convention and banned for most of the WBF events. So i don't share your view that, if the tournament rules do not say anything, Brown Sticker conventions are permitted. This means your use of an illegal convention made the board unplayable and an artifical score has to be assiged. (Ave- for you and Ave + for your opps). In the few cases where Brown Sticker conventions may be used, you have to supply a defence. When opps did not discuss a defence, they did well. After seeing the cards it is impossible to ignore shape and strength of your own hand while discussing a defence. The amount of UI that will be exchanged would make is almost impossible to play the board. Assume for a second west would have suggested to bid all 19+hcp hands with dbl ...... As others pointed out after the round clock has started, it is impossible to invent and agree a defence against HUM methods and finish the board on time. If you play HUM and provide information about it, you should make sure that your hand fits the description. I don't know what you said at the table but in your post you said: You did not specify the minimum legth of the second suit, so we assume 4.You did not specify what kind of points you use, so (4321) HCP is assumed. Now if you have a 5-4 distribution you will always have at least 2 distributinal points. So you should say 3-8 or "points including distribution".

2♣ openings with a long minor are a problem, because you could hold a 4 (or even a 5, if the minor has 6+cards) card major. In these situation you reach the 3 level without getting any information about partners hand. This is why playing 2♦ as a meaningless relay, is not a good idea. But this time it is not your fault, 3♦ is the wrong bid from north. It makes no sence to bid a new minor, as he knows you have a ♣ fit. I guess north tryed not to pass 3NT and to allow the strong hand to bid NT, but bidding a HCP-less suit is not helpful.

There are 2 bids that make sence 1♥ or 4♥. Ben perfectly reasoned 1♥. I'll select 4♥. This will shut off all of opponents communication and they will guess wrong. Partner has no reason to assume that I want to go any further than that.

There are 2 things to blame: 1) Most of the blame goes to the system, because a meaningless relay, is wasted biddingspace. And if South is not allowed to bid a 4card major after finding a fit. 2) What is left goes to north. 3NT is not a contract that should be accepted with a void. What requirements are there for south to bid 3NT? South should at least have 1-2 ♦ for communication. But there is nothing more we know. Since north knows nothing about the ♣'s stopper south might have or might not have, he should know that droping a ♠ looser on a ♣ stopper will always make 5♦. Or that ♥xxxx is good enough for trying 4♥.

The original post said 5♣ was a cuebid showing fit, i wonder why people had been discussing alternative meaning. So what you say is, that if you don't know what your partner is going to do next, you just ignore him? Partner started a cuebid sequence and oviously he wanted to hear a cuebid from opener. I'll help you finding the answer: AQ 7th opposit his Kxx with all controls will allow the Grand (at least with a finesse) AJ 7th will allow a grand if the trumps are not 3-0 (at least with a finesse) A 8th will allow a grand (at least with a finesse) So how does he find out about the trump ace? Probably this pair doesn't have any agreements or voidwood is not agreed and a simple blackwood can't determinate which Ace opener holds. By starting a cuebid sequence at least, some informations can be collected because: - the long suit will have 3 of the top 5 (at least 3 HCP) and - opener will usually have 10 HCP at most and - any side control weakens the trump suit - any ♦ values opposit a void may/will be wasted Openers 5♦ will make the grand less probable, so advancer will settle for 6. Without side controlls opener will bid 5♠, that can be advanced to 6. This sound like a plan to me that should work with any partner that is willing to cooperate. 6♠ means: I don't care what you want from me. Advancer now has to guess, if opener hold the A♦ (stop in 6) or A♠ the grand is on. Oviously i don't agree with that statement.

I would lead: a) trump Because i don't want west to ruff something, and it is unlikely to help opps. :ph34r: ♠ Because there is a chance to promote partners spade c) ♣ This might not be a real suit, but it is less likely to grant opps an extra finesse d) ♦ West is short in ♦ if partner misses values, they are behind him. I don't want to help opps.

Are you telling me that 8 cards to the QJT isn't solid?? :) No! I'm telling you that if partners shows a strong 4 level opening and i see the trump K in my hand, that I would have more than the strongest hope, that he will hold the Ace. With a weak 4 level opening i'd expect him to cooperate with cuebids. After the 5♦ cuebid in partners void, it is clear that he can't have the A♠ because he would have been to strong to preempt than. If opener would not hold the A♦, i would praise the 4♠ bid, because than for his point of view, he has actually reason to preempt. He would than have more than half of his points in his suit. And we would end in 5♠ making.

Optical Illusions tell us, that once our mind is focused on something, it is hard to see what is realy there. So if you what an unfocused view, you should only post your hand and the bidding. How would your partner bid holding: [hv=v=b&s=s63hkqdq2caqj9654]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] or holding : [hv=v=b&s=s63hkqdq2caqj9654]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] What masterbid will your partner find with: [hv=v=b&s=s63hkqdq2caqj9654]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] and what about [hv=v=b&s=s63hkqdq2caqj9654]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] I bet at the other table they play 6♠. Seeing only your cards, you don't know that partner holds 7♣, only 2 cards in each his side suits, holds AKQ of ♣.

This 4♠ is close to the lower limit of possible 4 level openings. Remember that opener is in red. If you define: The hand perfectly fits the description, but what about .... - key is suit strength, not points - suit quality is important when vulnerable - avoid preempting with too many outside honors This here might be a little to solid:

And the blame goes to .... south. Opening 4♠ is ok, but with 9 HCP in his hand and a weak 8 carder in ♠ it is not neccessary to preempt that high. Opps might not have game and with the *boss* suit he can allways overbid them on the same level later. Opening 1♠ or 3♠ would have been a better idea. After partners 5♣ (first round control ♣) south has still 5 looser left in his hand. Of cause north will have more than this, but bidding 6♠ is incooperative. South guesses that north will cover 5 of his 6 looser, and he inhibits any scientific bidding from north. Those who dislike 5♣, what bid is better? What makes you think that south would pass 6♠ with an unpromissed ace in his hand ? North 7♠ is a brilliant bid, after showing ♣A, south jumps to 6♠. Assuming that south will only bid 6 if there is at least a 50% chance to make it. North knows that additionaly to the ♣ control he showed, he is covering all ♦ loosers, 1-2 heart looser and a ♠ looser. If unfortunatelly the problem is in ♣ there is still a 50% that a finesse will bring another trick. With a little luck the ♥ can be made to a source of tricks. So if south had what was promissed by 6♠, 7♠ would have at least a 50% chance. South 4♠ is a little weak, but ok. Bidding 6♠ promisses strength at the upper limit of possible 4♠ openings. So south is to blame.

1) No mattter if you play ♠ or ♣ you hold enough trump, but playing ♠ your partner might be to short in ♠ to ruff. If he's not void, opps could lead trump and follow up trump when they can. So the ♣ game/slam is saver than a ♠ slam. Your partner will be happy to hear about your ♥ void and the additional strength you show. Of cause he would like to have a different K and go for 7. You are right, to make this slam, you still need the ♠ finess. If we assume that the 2♥ bid requieres more strength than the 4♥ bid. This finess will not be working most of the time. This is why is said you don't have to bid slam here.

1) You don't have to bid slam with this hand, but there are a few indicators that your side can make a lot tricks. Your partner bid 3♣, so he does not have 4♦ (he could show that with dbl). He won't have 4♠ (some would bid 2♠ even with 3 cards), and he is not balanced with ♥ stopper (did not bid 2NT). He bid 3♣ without knowng more about your hand that 6+HCP and 4♠s, so he won't hold minimum strength. The worst hand he could have 2335. In that case your side has a 9 card ♣ fit and additionally a 8 card ♠ fit. This means that your opps do have a doublefit in the red suits. Your partner has at least opening strength and you hold 11 HCP. Your opps just bid 4♥ holding at most 17 HCP. They must have some distributional strength to do that, so your side must have some distributional strength as well. So it is more likely that your partner hold 6♣, and has some sort of shortage. You know there are no ♥ looser, and partner will hold most of his strengeth in ♣, ♦ or ♠. If he holds ♠K, he can drop his ♦ on your ♠ (remember you hold first round control in ♦). If he holds ♦ values, he might be short in ♠ and can play a ♠ ♥ crossruff to develope your ♠. If after your 4♠ or 5♣ bid opps bid 5♥, you should rethink what they are defending against. With both sides vul., they should get 9 tricks to be better than your game, or they have reason to belive that your side can make 6♣.

Looking at the probabilities you will see, that if you open weak NT your 1minor bids will get stronger on average. This means your partner will feel less pressure, if there was interference in the 2nd seat. If your NT is 12-14 than your 1m bid shows 12-14 with distributional extra strength or 15+. 2nd seat overcalls after a 1m opening, holding only a good 5card suit and 8+ HCP get more and more common. Overcalls on the 2 level usually need more strength. So each time your LHO will have to pass, his partner has to guess in 4th seat, who's side is stronger. Most defences against NT openings are well designed for strong NTs. Just adapting the pointrage will produce an ineffective tool against the weak NT. After a strong NT opening, the defending side will rarely miss game. 1-2 undertricks by the defence will often be a good result. Since they have the minoraty of points most of the time, handling unbalanced hands is important. After a weak NT opening, the defending side might have game and undertricks will often produce a bad result. Since the defending side can easily have the majoraty of points, contracts on the 2 level (even those with only 7 trumps) will often be made. 4-4 / 4-3 fits especially in the minors will often not be found by the defending side. So the defending side needs to have much better agreements playing against a weak NT, as they would need playing against a strong NT. If they don't have the right tool, they will miss their partscores and games or overbid, missjudging their strength.

joshs is right. THe andvantage of playing a strong club system is, that every other opening bid is limited. This is a big advantage in the battle for the partscore. Note: You can only make one bid, but there are usually plenty of bids you did not make. Each of these unmade bids, excludes handtypes and pointrages. So you gain more information about partners hand, if you look at the bids partner did not make.

The system to teach beginner should be close to the system they will meet most of the time. Otherwise they have to learn 2 systems at the same time, this will lead to confusion. There is nothing to say against starting with precision, if they have opponents that play precision too.

This hand has no distributional strength and is not strong enough to make 4 opposite partners minimum. Partners 2♠ has not shown more than this minimum, yet. So i'll bid 3♠, partner will accept the invitation if he has more.

With a well knows partner 2♥ seems good enough, but with a pickup partner? I'll bid 4♥, partner can correct to 4♠ if he has support there. If he can penalty dbl ♣, I won't have 2 loosers in ♣.

Arend is right! Visualize partners hand. He could bid 4♥ and decided to bid 5♥ instead. He did that missing KQJ of ♥ and AQ of ♣. Of cause he knows that you must have some of that. But did you show your full strength? No you did not. How many defence tricks do you have? Don't count much on ♥ and ♣ opps might be short there. This is hardly enough to compensate for game or slam on your side. 5♥ asks you to bid at least 6, if you hold values partner can't ask you about.

Easts 1♠ bid is not a good bid, but than no psyche bid is a good bid. East knows that NS probably hold the majoraty of points (at least about half of the points) and most likely have a ♠ fit, so they can allways overbid on the same level. This is MP, you prefer NT to playing minors. This is non vul. and -1 is a good result, if opps don't enter the bidding they won't dbl you at low level. There is only a 7card fit in ♥ for your side. What can happen: 1) West bids a minor, no problem West is weak and East can pass that with fit. 2) West can bid 1NT, no problem just pass that. 3) West raises to 2♠. Problem! West is strong and holds ♠, but now there is no fit and EW are not strong enough for 3NT. So East can pass that too. So I don't agree with Justin, East is in control of the auction. 1NT by west is a perfectly normal bid. It is also the best contract for most hands east should hold! Holding 18hcp and only an 8card fit making 3♦ is lucky. Edit: I agree with that, East has no reasn to complain. I don't think 1NT is master minding, it is a perfectly normal MP bid.

I count 12 HCP and 4♠, partner opened and you bid game. No reason to alert.