kayin801

2♠ followed by 4♣ or 5♣, whichever is available. I'm trying to envision what hands the opponents would have to jump to 5♦ before we get another turn and I don't think the likelihood is high. More often they'll get to 4♠. If I were confident that 3♠ were a club splinter like gnasher said I would bid that but I have woefully underdiscussed this auction.

[hv=pc=n&s=skj2h54dq53ct9432&n=sthkjt92dat87cakq&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=pp1c(16+%20art.)3sppdp3nppp]400|300[/hv] Imps, I just felt like declaring rather than defending on this hand. RHO is neither completely crazy nor super conservative. Trick 1: ♠8, 10, ACE, 2 Trick 2: ♠9, JACK, 6, ... Plan the play. Additional information hidden below.

Agree with anyone who doubles, I tend to have this hand 20x more often then a penalty X when this auction comes around.

Expecting partner to have 2 first round controls for his w/r preempt is kinda insane, not to mention a trump lead could leave partner with an additional club loser or two or an overruff on some of those hands if our suits don't break exactly as we want. We're at the 5 level, we have no way of exploring whether partner has a good preempt or a bad preempt, and 5♥ gives us a good chance at a really good score. Opposition are not in a forcing auction, 3rd seat can have 0-15 pts, give or take a few.

Partner probably had 8xxxx, Kxx, AKJx, x, and hearts split 2-2, right? I'm not gonna find hearts when it's right after this start.

And I don't think bidding 2♣ is ridiculous, and your arguments are fine (thank you for actually making them), and its a clear 2nd choice outside the XX card accidentally hitting the table. And I agree that partner will usually have 4 clubs, though rarely 5 of them. But either partner or opener has extras and it seems to me that we're going to take a lot more damage when we bid and its wrong than when we pass and its wrong, as opposed to the gain when each is right, and I don't know if weighting towards 2♣ being right more often makes up for the damage. BTW I envisioned opener making a takeout double of our 2♣ bid and that being passed out, and then having a bunch of spade overruffs coming our way. I don't really want to think about this at MP

This is a ridiculous answer. Why bid 2♣ when you can go for 500 or 800 in your 3-3 or 4-3 fit? What evidence do we have that we're making 2♣? Bidding 2♣ seems like it will be +90, +110, -100, -500, or -800, while passing looks like -160 or +100 most of the time. I like the minus scores on the second one a lot better.

Pass, at least they're not in game. Yes I think they're making, but not many overs, and no I don't think we're making much our way. -160 every once in a while builds character.

Should be COG, but I'm afraid of losing 2 spades and an outside A or a spade, spade ruff, and something outside when playing 5♣. If partner is 4-4 in the majors with something like xxxx, AKQx, xx, Axx 4♥ is better, and I hope partner has a good 4 card suit and the club A at least for his bid, counting on our shortness in spades, else he might try 5♣ or some other slammish call. Heck, partner could have an 18-19 balanced hand too like KJxx, AKQx, Qx, Axx or QJxx, AKxx, Ax, Axx. Partner doesn't have to have 4 spades, but I don't think we're placed any worse as long as we have good hearts and running clubs. Edit: agree with phil's thrump suggestion if we play X that way here.

You can either put down the pass card or the ace of spades.

I think ♠ was the expected lead on this auction so I think we have to lead a ♥ now. Partner could have the ♥K and a pointed ace or a trump trick. A ♣ was out on East's bidding, if he's to be believed.

On a scale from 1 to insane how crazy is a 2♠ rebid by responder? Cause I hate pass, 2♦, 3♦, 2♥, and 2NT. I hate 2♠ too but I think it should enter the equation.

4♥ could also be wrong if they have a diamond ruff (and opener's partner didn't even bother with a diamond raise in competition, so I think this is likely), while 3NT could be wrong if we need to finesse in clubs AND enter dummy since opener is likely to have club length and we could lose our clubs, if not lose 4 spade tricks. In fact, everything looks pretty badly placed here so I could be convinced pass is right too. I can see us losing 2 diamonds, a diamond ruff, and a heart in 4♥ or losing a club and 4 spades in 3NT. But the former is only going to happen if partner has that sample hand phil made, while partner could still have a bit more than that, so pass still seems too negative to me. If 3♠ is asking for a stopper, I would gamble that if partner can't bid 3NT that he has something in diamonds or hearts so we can make 4♥.

[hv=pc=n&s=sk942hkq962dkc952&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=pp1s2h]133|200|Matchpoints[/hv] 1) Initial pass, yay or nay? 2) What's your call? 3) Do you consider any other calls close? EDIT: Title should read bidders', typo

Or your partner has way less for his 5♣ then the rest of our partners do?

I would hope that with a spade void partner would make an advance cue of 3♠ (choice of games otherwise?) so over our probable 3NT he could bid 4♣, so I'd guess partner has at least one spade, if not two. Agree with the likelihood of partner having 4-6 hand, probably 1=4=2=6 or 2=4=1=6. We've pretty much guaranteed 4 clubs on this auction (depending on support X agreements) but with a 9 card fit partner might try 3NT anyway. The exception might be the 0=4=4=5 hand mikeh mentioned since we have implied 3 diamonds with our bidding unless 4=2=2=5 or 4=1=3=5. I'm trying 6♣, if my partner has his bid then I have mine.

I don't mind 3♠, you don't want partner to pass your X if he has spades, a leaping michaels call distorts your shape, and a heart bid risks burying the diamond suit and/or not getting high enough. With OP's bidding agreement this is still a distortion, and it would be nice if 4NT showed this kind of hand (correcting clubs to diamonds) as was suggested above. If 4NT doesn't show this hand then South has a huge problem over 4♠, and 5♦ is the 2nd best solution and slightly crazy (I prefer 5♥) Suggesting that this is cheating is hilarious, sometimes when I open at the 1 level my partner has 7 card support, does that make it cheating? EDIT: not to mention we've already shown hearts, and showing our diamonds is also a descriptive bid, even if it is the wrong one.

The best part is when I was constructing hands that one originally had 15 cards, but at least I caught myself there. Im pretty sure I meant KJ tight of hearts but who really knows. EDIT: nvm that makes no sense I have no clue what I meant. Oh well. Your point is made. @rduran: if 2♥ is artificial and forcing (which it is for most people) then the hand you have is a 3♥ bid.

Now I'm thinking back and trying to figure what hands opener would even have for a 2NT bid after 2♥, given that he can no longer be balanced (though he could be 6322). Something like x, KJx, KQxxxx, KQx would make 6NT very good, but if his diamonds aren't good we have might have a tough time making ANY slam. Something like x, KQ, KQxxxx, Qxxx, or Qx, KJx, QJ9xxx, KQx or anything with a diamond loser will go down pretty often. I guess after partner bids 2NT we should be perfectly safe in 4NT but I'm just not sure how often partner is going to diagnose a raise with no aces, even with that first example. Is our 4NT bid just trying to pick up if partner sandbagged with an aceless 16-17 cause he didn't have a good rebid before? So maybe I'm arguing down my 3NT bid that I made earlier :P since over 2NT we rate to be okay in 4. @pooltuna: in what world does opener rebid 4♥ over 2♥?

I would just bid 2♥ (assuming it's forcing) so we can try to find the right spot, which might be spades. I really hope no one says 3NT. I'll worry about slam at my next turn if partner makes a non-min move, but if he tries 2NT or 3♦ I'm just bidding 3NT.

No blame and I don't expect anyone to get to 6♠.

I think this best reflects my feelings on it, if opener knows responder will only bid on his first turn with 5+ pts then he can know that responder will always try to sign off with 5-7 and will GF with anything else. If responder will frequently bid with less, transfers become more complicated because we need to find a way to show 3 different ranges instead of 2, or just suck it up when responder has crap and opener has a big hand. I don't think it's a huge deal that responder has no way to show slam-range extras for gnasher's given reasons.

I think I would have bid 3♦ instead of bidding 2NT, having already bid 1NT. It sucks that we're underbidding but it will also keep us low when opener doesn't have as good of a hand but has diamond tolerance (Won't opener bid on with this hand anyway, something like 3♥-3♠-4♣ and then we might get there, or to 6♠ which might come home on a non-trump lead). Something like a splinter showing both minors after 1NT (not sure what 3♥ is for you) would be nice. After 2NT, 3NT by N is no good, we have a huge hand for clubs and shortness in a suit partner hasn't named, so I'd just bid 4♣ and go from there, even if we only make it to 5 sometimes we'll make 420 vs 400. I can also buy responding 2♦ initially planning to rebid 3♦ over 2♥/2NT or passing 2♠. Unfortunately this might still not get us to clubs unless opener gets super excited about the misfit and shows his clubs at the 4 level.

I was initially gonna say 3♦ based on hand strength but I feel like 3♣ has a better chance of getting us to 3NT, since with a fit partner might try 3♥ (stopper ask for me) or 3NT and we have a chance of running away with 10+ tricks in 3NT when slam isn't on. We are REALLY in business if we know the club suit is coming in, but it's easier for that to come in than diamonds. And as others have said, if partner bids diamonds after 3♣ I'm not displeased.

Unanimous poll so far. South's bidding is special.