rbforster

Silent Club: 1♣-1♦ strong; most 0-7, some GFs 1N-2♣ 19-21 bal; stayman 2♠-3N

I thought 1♥ was about right, given the Vul and flaws as a preempt. I disagreed much more with the "limit raise" by West, with his soft 9 count and a stiff. I don't go looking for games opposite a strong club very often, and I think a raise to 2♥ or 3♥ is probably sufficient. East doesn't have to have a good hand.

So having looked at partners hand, I think he needs to act directly over whatever heart raise West makes. He's got a semi positive hand to begin with, and having seen hearts bid and strongly raised, he's got to bid now with the void so he doesn't look like he's balancing with nothing. In the common auction 1♣-p-1♦-1♥ 2♣-3♣-? I think North has a clear responsive double for the unbid suits.

I guess I don't have a real competitive "system" here and there's a lot of judgment in making natural calls. I sort of view this as making a 2 level overcall - I want a good call (good suit, takeout shape, or extras balanced), or I can leave the decision to partner. Either way, I assume we'll end up at the same place since I'm not confident of beating 3♥X at imps that I'm sitting. So it's either 1♣-P-1♦-1♥ p-2N-p-3♥ p-P-X-p 4♣-P-4♦-ap or the same thing without the ELC and I take it out to 4♦ directly.

Do you want to suggest the competitions auction after my pass instead of the more common 2♣ call?

I would also suggest that, to the extent there is competitive information where you provide spoilers for different responding bids, that you leave those up for people who might want to contribute later. You can add a second post and/or an additional spoiler that shows the whole hand and result summary afterwards.

I'm passing, 2♣ is possible but my values in their suit isn't encouraging.

That doesn't look like a "good" 5 card club suit to me. I'd much sooner overall 1♠ as East after a negative bid than 2♣ as West in a live auction.

Silent Club: P-1♣ yup, thats a pass; strong 1♦-1N 0-7, some GFs; 19-21 bal P

Silent Club: 1♣-1♦ strong; most 0-7, some GFs 1♥-1♠ art min, waiting; 0-7 1N-2♣ 16-18 bal; stayman 2♥-P Responser can check for the 4-4 major, and sign off in 2M if no 4-4 fit is found.

2♣ followed by pass, when partner fails to act over their cue.

Akhare - I think you're assuming the actual North hand, not sure if that matters. The situation faced by most precision relayers was that South knew North had 4513 min GF, say 8-10 hcp roughly. It would be interesting to sim across the various North hands subject to those shape/value constraints to see what game contracts seemed best.

It's your study/contest so I'm happy to go along with your preference, but most of the time people can see both hands and tell what the best contract would be (i.e. is slam on, NT vs 5-2 major game, which part score, etc). I think in a format like these forums where you can't hide the information perfectly, you just have to trust people to try to bid their system accurately. That said, there are some deals where the layout is complex and its not clear what the best contract might be (like #20). I think adding some sim results after everyone has had a chance to bid them would be a nice followup to the discussion.

Antony - I think people would be interested to see your simulation results, even with the caveats you mention (DD with random E/W). Whatever you find easiest to sim up would still be appreciated and valuable. Those who want to make slight adjustments based on the hand in question (if it has two way finesses or whatever) can do that for themselves.

Silent Club: 1♣-1N strong; majors unbal GF 2♣-2♦ relay; primary hearts 2♥-2♠ relay; diamond shortness 2N-3♦ relay; 4513 3♥-3♠ relay; min <= 6 QP 4♣-4♥ relay; 1-2 heart cards, no spade card [might as well ask on the way to 5♣] 4♠-5♣ relay; club card, only one heart card P Once opener relays for shape, he gets the bad news - NT has been wrong sided, and with Axx vs stiff in diamonds, NT looks risky on the likely lead and double dummy defense. Now what?. While his 18 count isn't huge extras, they are control heavy and responder could drop 3N with hands that would easily make slam (8 QPs and no diamond wastage). Asking for values seems clear, hoping for enough extra to try for slam or have more confidence about a club game. When he hears about the min, he has to decide between a risky 3N vs 5♣ on not enough strength (I didn't really consider 4M since the diamond taps are coming in the wrong hand). In the end, the IMPS scoring made me lean towards continuing to relay for honors and planning to go for clubs over NT. On the last relay (4♠), responder seemed very unlikely to have no club cards (requires AK♥ and a stiff diamond Q, which would force us past 5♣ since the 4N answer would make 5♣ a relay), and if he zoomed past 5♣ (showing AK♥ and Q♣) then slam looked decent with a couple club ruffs. As it was, with a single heart honor, opener decided to give up seeing no clear route to slam.

Silent Club: 1♣-1♦ strong; most 0-7, some GFs 1♥-2♣ art min; heart one-suiter, inv+ 2♦-3♥ weak relay; 3622 GF 3N-4♥ sign off; 11 QPs 4♠-4N relay; AKQ♥ 5♣-5♥ relay; 1-2 spade cards, no diamond card 5♠-5N relay; no club card (actual hand known up to maybe J♣) 7♥-P I think this has good odds This is more a single dummy odds problem for us than a bidding one, since we know about the strong heart suit and locate all the QPs by 5N. At that point it's just judging whether the cold 6N is better than trying for the heart (or NT) grand. Not knowing about the spade hook (we can't find tens), it still looks like 4-2 or better clubs OR Q♦ dropping.

Silent Club: No preempt from us. P-1♣ strong 1♦-1♥ most 0-7, some GFs; art most minimums, but also some stronger club hands 1♠-2♣ 0-7; natural 5+, 16-21ish 2♥-2♠ 5+ natural invitational forcing; natural forcing 2N-3N no fit; game

Would people agree on the standard 2/1 auction? My guess is: 1♦-1♥ 1♠-1N 2♥-P where 2H shows extras. Not sure if this is enough extras to show, or whether standard players might drop it in 1N. Guessing they should bid again over 1N in general, if not this time.

Silent Club: 1♣-1♦ strong; most 0-7 1♠-2♦ art, two suited min, includes a major; asking for the major 2♠-2N better major (could be 5=4); invitational with short spades and 4 hearts P A clear invitational auction for us, declined, and no fit found.

Zel and straube - you're right of course. I wasn't thinking about the extra ruffing chance, which, with the backup hook, should make the grand a good bet.

Silent Club: 1♣-1♠ strong; GF bal or clubs 1N-2♣ relay; clubs GF or a good one suited invite 2♥-2♠ strong relay; shortness in major 2N-3♣ relay; 7321 pattern 3♦-3♠ relay; x1x7 shape with 6 or fewer QPs 4♣-4♥ relay; club card, no spade card 4♠-4N relay; no diamond card 5♣-5♠ relay; HHJ in clubs, no spade jack 6N-P count to 12.5 Our relay auction is ambiguous for strength due to the possible invitational hand type (as here), but opener knows to expect either AQ♣ or full values. Without exact count on QPs, we aren't able to infer whether the heart stiff is a queen for 13 tricks, and just settle for the known 6N.

Following the relay auction, isn't South asking with 3♥, so 3♠ is the answer with 6 QPs (rather than 3N which you give in the description)? If so, how is responder/relayer deciding on 3N vs 4♠? I would have thought opener would just pass 3N.

Silent Club: Tough one. We open North for sure: 1♦-1♠ 4+ unbal 9-15; natural 4+ (no strong JS available) 2♦-3♣ 4♥/5+♦ NF; 4th suit GF 3♦-3♠ punt, could be 6th diamond; tends to be 6 spades here, since opener would raise initially with 3451 shape 4♠-P stiff honor and no stop; give up? Hard not to try for slam here as South, maybe with 4N (RKC) or a 5♦ cue, either going down. At the table, I think I'd probably bid on (5♦-5♠-P) since until Norths final bid his hand hasn't been limited (give Qx♠ and a club honor, possibly without Q♦, and 6-7 is on). On reflection I think maybe passing is right though, since with a max and a club card, North can bid 4♣ to agree spades, so in that context 4♠ should be somewhat discouraging (and of course there is the possibility of a no fit auction). Another negative inference about 4♠ is that when it's made without a true fit, like here, it's because opener lacks a club stop for a superior 3N call. On this hand, given all the South honors, any hand missing both club honors is a min hand without enough values for slam. If we pass, there's still a lot of possibilities depending on South's hand valuation since its on the edge of our roughly 16-18/19-21 range split. I think I'd probably take the low road (treat as 18 count with all those short suit minor honors): P-1♣ (forgot to open); strong 1♦-1♥ most 0-7, some heart GFs; art min, bal or one suited 2♦-2♥ GF with ♦>♥; relay 2♠-2N short spades; relay 3♦-3♥ 1453; relay 3N-P 7 QP; game (not enough opposite no fit) At least clubs are breaking since we couldnt check for stoppers. Here's the high road: P-1♣ (forgot to open); strong 1♦-2♠ most 0-7, some heart GFs; 5+ natural 19-21ish 3♦-3♠ natural GF; 6th spade 4♠-P At least in this case responder knows opener's strength range and is able to pick either 3N or 4♠ without worrying about missing a likely slam.

Silent Club: 1♣-1♦-(1♠) strong; most 0-7 and GFs with hearts P-3♥ min bal or trap usually; natural GF 4♥-P Good thing East didn't overcall 1♥ - that'd be a real test of ones agreements.

Silent Club: 1♣-1♦-(1♠) strong; most 0-7 or some GFs 2♥-(2♠)-3♠ natural, NF; stopper? 3N-4♣ yes; cue agreeing hearts, 4+ support 4♦-4♥ cue; game 4N-5♥ 1430 RKC; 2 without 6♥-P An awkward auction untangling our GF responding hand since we lost the 2 level cuebid. Pulling 3N confirms the big heart fit (4+), a natural club suit, and an unbalanced hand. Opener seems like he's worth another move over 4♥ what with the favorably placed spade honors opposite likely shortness given the opponents' bidding. I'm not sure whether opener should do more than just a natural non-forcing 2♥ after the interference. My style is to generally downplay two suited hands until a fit is found, so I tend to take the low road and try to catch up later if things go well.