glen

Welcome to bbf! What system do you currently play?

I think Marvin French calls this Marvin, both in the document and his Bridge World article. I'm trying to combine both of the above methods, and the new method is named Lee Marvin: X: ♥ & m or three-suited short ♠ 2♣: three-suited not short ♠ 2♦: multi, 1 major 2♥: ♥+♠ 2♠: ♠+minor 2NT: ♣s or strong ♦ 3♣: minors 3♦: weak Some might play that the overcalls must be a bad 12, the "dirty dozen". In the ACBL, Lee Marvin can only be played by professionals in western events, since it employs a multi 2♦ opening that buffaloes* eastern folk. * buffalobuffalo.html

Your priority 4 is "Choosing to show hand patterns that occur more frequently than others", and if you start allocating bids to "seldom occur" and "The frequency of occurrence within this range is low at only 0.16%" it seems be in the wrong direction.

The web site notes "I also intend to add pages to summarise my research" which we can look forward to seeing

The closest I did to that was: sob.pdf The system featured a two-way 1♣ and a negative or positive 1♣-1♦. However I was trying to make it more bulletproof by one end of each of the two-way bids as a specific hand type. A common example sequence to think about would start, with the opponents bidding, 1♣-Pass-1♦-3♣-?. Now consider what pass means here. If it just shows 11-13 balanced, then 16+ has to double or bid, and can find itself facing 0-7 without a fit. If pass is 11-13 bal and some 16+ but limited hand types (e.g. 16-18s not shapely), is 1♣-Pass-1♦-3♣-Pass-Pass-Pass the only option with 0-7, and if 13+ bids, is the partnership in a game force even if just 13 opposite 11 flat? There's some intriguing design to work on.

For op's design, the closest system I did but with natural bids was: bash.pdf From the introduction:

If 1♣ was just 15+, you would not take action with a balanced hand, and if 1♣ includes 8-9 balanced there are even more reasons to trap pass with values. For a discussion on this see the Chip Martel section that begins "The defense was really geared to the Swedish Club, where a 1♣ opening is 10-12 balanced or 16+ ...": martel.pdf

Not only ethical but is high praise

You would like an answer for beginners and intermediates?

Play something such as 0-8 both majors 4-4+ or 16+

Yes, make the weaker range of pass a particular hand type, and it depends on what "promise values" means - does promising 1 point promises values?

If you play in 2♦ when you have a better ♣ fit available, the opponents have missed playing in their major.

The actual system is more complex than my examples, but I provided the examples to not focus on the system but the question. The system is a plug n' play, much like the smaller systems at: www.bridgematters.com/bidding.htm This was the Polish club style design: 1♣: Two-Way, modified Polish club style, most often weak balanced --- two modes: 1) Little, balanced or close to it, either: 1a) Balanced 10-15 outside the range and type for a 1NT opening at the vulnerable and position. Usually 11-13 V, 13-15 1-2NV, 11-15 3-4NV with a four card major. 1b) 10-14, three suiter with no five card major, shortness in a minor, and at least one four card major. 1c) 1-4-4-4 or 4-1-4-4 exactly, 12-14. --- OR --- 2) Big, and either unbalanced or extras, either: 2a) 17+ any unbalanced, 17 exactly requires a seven card suit or at least 10 cards in two suits. 2b) 21+ balanced. 1♦: Semi-Strong, 15-17 with a three suiter or 16-18 balanced, can have a five card major, or 15-17 exactly 6 card minor with no second suit. 1♥, 1♠: Natural, five card or longer major, 10-17, can have a longer minor. If 15-16 must be 6+ major or a 5-5, and 17 is exactly 6 in the major with no second suit. Never a 5-3-3-2. 1NT: Variable, 10-12 balanced 1-2NV, 11-15 balanced rest, with these tendencies: --- Usually 14-15 when vulnerable --- Rarely a four card major if 13-15 3-4NV 2♣: Natural, 5+♣s, 10-16, no five card major. If just 5♣s must be 10-14 and a 5-4-3-1 or a 5-4-4-0 shape with shortness in a major. If 15-16 must be 6-4+ or a 7+♣s. 2♦: Natural, 5+♦s, 10-16, no five card major. If just 5♦s must be 5-5 minors, or, only if 10-14 a 5-4-3-1 or a 5-4-4-0 shape with shortness in a major, If 15-16 must be 6-4+ or a 7+♦s or -5-5+ minors. 2♥, 2♠: Weak, 6 or longer major, 5/6-10, not 4+ in other major. 2NT: 19-20, balanced etc. However I believe that weak balanced should open 1♦ to reduce the space available to the opponents, and since it does not need that much space to unwind. I decided to post the question here, and here's the result: 1♣: Big Club, three modes: 1) Semi-Strong, 15-17 with a three suiter or 16-18 balanced, can have a five card major, or 15-17 exactly 6 card minor with no second suit. 2) 18+ any unbalanced, or 17 exactly and a seven card suit or at least 10 cards in two suits. 3) 21+ balanced. 1♦: 10-15, balanced or close to it, if balanced not the range for opening 1NT, either: 1) Balanced 10-15 outside the range and type for a 1NT opening at the vulnerable and position. Usually 11-13 V, 13-15 1-2NV, 11-15 3-4NV with a four card major. 2) 10-14, three suiter with no five card major, shortness in a minor, and at least one four card major. 3) 1-4-4-4 or 4-1-4-4 exactly, 12-14. Rest as above.

Thanks for all the replies, and does anybody want me to post background on the associated system?

I haven't voted yet, but a question and comments: - How does an unbalanced hand with clubs 11-21 get opened? In Precision 10-15 (some systems 11-16) opens 2♣, the rest 1♣. - I think your 1♣-1♦-1M rebids can have a wider range, such as 15-20. - That would allow a lower bid than 2♠ for the 18-19 balanced, such as 2♦

That's a strong statement to make in the "non-natural" systems forum! Big club, polish club, big diamond, 2D any GF, standard two clubs are all "pretty bad"?

I'm not asking you to judge the complete system, just the 1♣/♦ openings, and the example was just an example for context. Here's another example: 1♣: 15+ any (or if choice 2, 12-14 bal or 18+ any) 1♦: 12-14 bal (or if choice 2, 15-17 any) 1♥/1♠: 8-14, 4 or 5 card suit if 10-14 1NT: 9-11 bal (10-11 in ACBL) 2♣/2♦: 10-14, 5 or longer, no four card major 2♥/2♠: 10-14, 6 or longer

No, I mean that 1♦=weak NT If you would like an example system: 1♣: 15+ any 1♦: 12-14 bal 1♥/1♠: 8/9-14, 5 or longer 1NT: 9-11 bal (10-11 in ACBL) 2♣/2♦: 9/10-14, 5 or longer 2♥: 12-14, any 4-4-4-1 with 4♥s 2♠: 12-14, 4-1-4-4 exactly No, 1♦ is any 15-17, can be balanced or unbalanced. Any hand that has 15, 16, or 17 points opens 1♦, and if fewer than 15 or more than 17 opens something else, or sadly passes.

I'll abstract this question/poll to this: Your system framework requires that 1C and 1D have to handle all 15+ and weak NTs. Which way is best: 1) Big club style: 1C covers all 15+, 1D is a weak NT 2) Modified Polish style: 1C covers weak NT and all 18+, 1D is any 15-17 3) Both good (this includes both okay) 4) Both bad (both approaches have flaws) 5) Other: you have a better solution, which you provide below (update: 1 vote for other, but nothing given on what it is) Thanks in advance for your answers!

Did I read this correct, and there are two responses to the 1♣ opening, 2♣ negative and 2♦ 4+? Edit: below it is mentioned that typo error has been corrected, not sure where to find this correction, unless it was the change from "double negative" to "negative" for the 2♣ response

I’m convinced – It’s time to dump one of the two Jacoby 2NT threads

Thanks, I voted for 3♠. Good question, and one that needs to be considered so that at the table the answer can be made in tempo. Likewise the partnership needs to understand that 1♦-(2♣)-2♠-3♠-3NT is a choice of game, to allow an out for these hand types. In sophisticated partnerships, they could bid 3♣ as choice, forcing to at least 3♠.

Board 19, Fantunes who use their ranges: http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?linurl=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/vugraph_linfetch.php?id=11023 2♣=natural 13/14-17 or 17/18+, 2♦=6-9, 2♠=3 or 4 ♠s, 2NT=asks, 3♠=4♠s

Board 19: http://www.bridgefederation.ch/2011/wtc/R18A.PHP LV's 2♠ shows a four card minor 16+, 2NT asks, and 3S shows exactly 2-5-4-2

Board 14 gives an example of breaking the relays to show a long suit: http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?linurl=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/vugraph_linfetch.php?id=21545 Board 17, Swedes use a jump to show exactly 6-2-3-2: http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?linurl=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/vugraph_linfetch.php?id=20636 Board 8, Garner-Weinstein break relays to show long suit: http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?linurl=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/vugraph_linfetch.php?id=10132 Board 109, Garner-Weinstein break relays to show natural: http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?linurl=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/vugraph_linfetch.php?id=14473