Kungsgeten

Actually we're moving from Moscito to a more natural system with a two-way club (11-13 balanced or 17+). The structure looks fine.

Hi! We're trying out a Swedish Club system, and 1M is 5+ major with 11-16 hcp (so basically the same as precision). What continuations would you recommend after this? Alternatives I've considered is: Kaplan Inversion (or perhaps awm's method of 1H-1S; 1NT showing diamonds/balanced and 1H-1S; 2D showing a raise). Natural 2/1 GF with a forcing NT Natural 2/1 semi-GF (unless suit is rebid) with some kind of Bergen Raises (3C 4-card raise, 3D limit raise with 3 card support), non-forcing NT Ambra inspired (2C relay, transfer raise (bad raise or GF with a suit), 1M-2M constructive, using 2NT as limit+ with 4-card support and 3m as INV, non-forcing NT) 2C GF relay, 1H-2D = good raise, 1H-2H = bad raise, 1S-2D = Hearts, 1S-2H = good raise, 1S-2S = bad raise. 1M-2NT limit+ with 4 cards Gitelman-Moss inspired (2/1 GF, forcing NT, 2NT natural GF, lots of trump support raises) Kaplan Inversion is compatible with all of these, and is something I'd like to try out. The others, I do not know. We've used 1M-2C full relays before, but we play mostly MP and it takes a long time resolve and leaves less time for card play. I like the Ambra style of having a GF relay with not quite full resolution, but also having the alternative to use natural methods. Both Ambra and Gitelman-Moss however is perhaps better suited for wide-range openings? Any suggestions are appreciated!

I bought the book from this years Swedish Bridge Festival. The store got it when they visited the Junior European Championship in Poland. I haven't read any of the previous material on Polish Club. The book's layout is pretty hard to follow, in my opinion. There's an index in the front of the book, but the book itself doesn't have page numbers (so its hard to lookup specific topics). I liked many of the ideas in the Pro version, such as "Cheap Transfers" (a form of Bourke relay) and the Odwrotka proposed. The quizzes are good and they show that hand evaluation is very important, instead of hcp ranges. I haven't read all of the book yet, but from what I've seen it looks like it is more of a framework described. I was curious on auctions like 1D-1M; 1NT (since opening 1D is unbalanced) or 1X-1Y; 2NT. There's some info about competition over the club opening, but there could have been more. I think that the book would work as a good base for a system (which it is probably intended to be, since it is a standard system described), and that it is up to the partnership to extend it. Even though I might not play the system (but perhaps in the future, who knows?) I think the book is useful anyway. The ideas of cheap transfers, some of the 1NT-system, some parts of the multi opening, the pro version of Odwrotka (we're actually going to use that in our Swedish Club system)... I guess buying this as an e-book could be a good idea, since it will probably have a working index.

I quite like this one Free. Are the full system notes available online?

o There are three system levels: C-level (max 7 dots), B-level (max 10 dots) and A-level (anything is allowed). Keep in mind that only opening bids get dots, not responses or overcalls etc. A pass opening never get any dots, but the responses are treated as opening bids unless the pass is strong (15+). The level of which system is allowed depends on the event; mostly how many boards you play against the same opponents (but also the "complexity" of the event). Nearly all matchpoint club games are C-level. Most team games are B-level. A-level is normally reserved for national competitions or so called "gold events". In short: If you have too many dots, the rules says that you can not use the system (and if you do you have to change the system and board results where you've used a dotted bid may change). I think the dot system work pretty well; you have a lot of creativity and the number of dots assigned to a bid depends on how hard it is to defend against (in theory). However, since everything is allowed it is still possible to face every kind of opening bid in a single competition, so you basically need a defense for all of them. If the purpose of system regulations is to defend people from facing strange bids, then it does not work. The dot system does not care about how common an opening is, just the definition and how hard it should be to defend against in theory. Another downside is that most players do not know the rules for the dot system, since they're pretty complex (you at least have to be interested in system design). This include tournament directors. I would guess that the consequences for cheating would be pretty mild, at least at a local club level. One last thing: If you have really strange opening bids (4 dots or more in a single bid) you have special obligations. You have to send a summary of the system notes prior to the event, bring copies of these notes etc. The opening bids which have 4+ dots are very uncommon (only opening bids of 1D, 1H and 1S may have 4+ dots). An example would be 1D showing any weak hand (a fert) which gets 5 dots. The same bid, but a major, would get 7 dots. Using one of a major as some kind of multi (like 1S as showing one of the minors) would get 4 dots.

In Sweden, any opening bid is legal. Artificial openings are given a point value though, called dots, based on what the bid shows. If the bid shows at least four cards in the suit bid, they are considered natural and does not get any dots. Openings showing at least 15+ hcp does not get any dots either. Also, any continuation over opening bids or over opponent's openings, or later in the auction, is legal and non-regulated. So the answer: All of the definitions of 2C are legal in Sweden, and does not hinder your ability to use other artificial openings in your system (since all the 2C versions shows at least 4 clubs). You would however need to alert the f) option, since it could be canapé. FYI Standard American would get 2 dots (the 1m opening gets one each, since they promise only 3 cards), while the system below would get none: Pass = 15+ any 1X = 8-14, 4+ suit 1NT = 12-14 2X = 0-7, 4+ suit 2NT = 8-11

Okay, so I guess you remove 5440 hands (what do you bid with these hands, pretend they're 5431?) and two 5332 distributions are shown higher than normal, but you gain one step when holding single suiters with 6+ major. I have some notes from Fredin-Lindkvist and they seemed to combine short and long legged two-suiters like this, starting at 3D: 5431, 5521, 5530, 6421, 6430, 6520, 7420. I'm not sure I like this, since you get quite high with 64. On the other hand you're a step lower than normal with 5431, which is good since it is so common.

In the symmetric relay system notes I've found, 2C over a 1M opening is a GF relay. They, however, also have an opening bid showing 5-5 majors, so this hand isn't included in the 1S opening. I've seen people playing 1M-2C as GF relay, without using the 5-5 majors opening. Does anyone have notes for a scheme like this? The symmetric relay I'm talking about is something like: 1S-2C; 2D = 5440 or 4+ clubs 2H = 4+ diamonds 2S = 4 hearts 2NT+ = 6+ spades or 5332 I guess one way would be this below, but I guess there might be a better solution: 1S-2C; 2D = 5440, 5-5 majors or 4+ clubs ..2H = R ....2S = 5440 or 5-5 majors ......2N = R ........3C = 5440 (then 3D asks) ........3D+ = 5-5 majors

You mean something like: Pass = 0-7(8) / 17+ 1C = Clubs or 9-11 bal (perhaps switch 1NT and 1C depending on vul) 1D = Diamonds or 12-14 bal 1M = 5+ major 1N = 15-17 2X = 8-11, 5+ It is a posibility, even though I'm not too fond of two balanced oriented minor openings. The main downside here is what to do with 8-11 and 5-4 majors (have to open 2M with the longer I guess). If we put 9-10 balanced into the pass we could do something like this: 1C = Clubs or 11-13 bal 1D = Diamonds or 14-16 bal 1NT = 8-11, both majors or (if we ignore the both majors problem) 1C = Clubs or 11-13 bal 1D = Diamonds 1NT = 14-16

First me and partner played a forcing pass system, where pass was 0-7 or 17+. To make this work we had a very nebolous 12-16 1C opening, and the other bids were 8-11. We quite enjoyed the 8-11 stuff, except opening 1S on 8-11 balanced when vul (1NT was 12-14). The 1C opening was a burden though. Right now we play a strong club structure instead (very similar to Moscito), but the club opening isn't quite as good as the forcing pass (because of all the interference). I had an idea of combining a forcing pass with Fantunes 2-openings, this was the first structure: Pass - 0-7(8) / 17+ any 1C - 12-16 balanced or clubs 1D - 12-16, 4+ diamonds, unbalanced 1M - 12-16, 5+ major 1NT - 9-11 2X - 8-11, 5+ suit The problems, as I see it, is that the 12-16 balanced range in 1C is hard to manage, especially in competition or if responder do not have a 4 card major (we were planning to play transfer responses, where opener responds 1NT with the upper range of the interval). Also the problem still exists that opening 1NT red with 9-11 is asking for trouble. Also opening hands with 5-4 majors at the two-level is probably a bad idea. The new idea is to mix it up with the Moscito structure: Pass - 0-7 any, 8-10 balanced or 17+ any 1C - 11-13 balanced / 8-11 both majors / 12-16 with 6+ clubs 1red - 12-16, transfer to major, may have longer minor suit (not 4432 or 4333) 1S - 12-16, 6+ diamonds or 9+ cards in the minors 1NT - 14-16 bal 2X - 8-11, 5+ suit. 2M denies the other major The main problems here is that the weak interval of the pass opening may be to large, perhaps it will be a problem? The 1C opening may also look problematic, but I actually think it looks worse than it is. 6+ clubs 12-16 is rare (especially if you decide that it denies a 4+ major), but should do well in competition. 8-11 with both majors (at least 5-4) may be able to bid again at the two-level, especially if partner doubles. The 11-13 hand is the most common and the one partner will expect.

If overcalling a minor, both suits are known (so this would be legal). If they open 1H however, jumping to 2S, the minor is unknown (the same is true after 1S-2H, if you play this as canapé as Ulf suggests).

Be sure to check out Canapé Jump Overcalls, if you haven't already. http://viewsfromthebridgetable.blogspot.se/2007/03/canap-jump-overcall.html Basically a jump to 2M shows 4 cards in the suit bid and a 5+ minor.

Didn't know if this should be posted here or in the non-natural forum, but anyway: I have an idea of opening 1NT in third seat, which then shows a 6-14 semibalanced hand, either normal weak NT (11-14) or 6-10 semibal with a 5 or 6 card minor. The shapes for the 6-10 could be 5332, 5422 (with 5 minor and 4 major, both minors not recommended because of garbage stayman) or 6322. The theory is that we will either play 1NT or find a 5-2 or better fit at the 2-level (unless responder has a 4441 with singleton in our suit). It could be done with 5332/6322/5422 with a major suit as well (or even 7222 I guess). Does anyone has any experience with something similar? If the opponents double, responder bids a 5+ suit or passes without (now opener will bid her 5+ minor or redouble with a standard weak NT without a 5+ minor). If they pass, responder may bid garbage stayman or bid 2D, 2H or 2S as a sign off (or simply pass 1NT). A problem may be that responder can have a hand just close of an opening bid, and invite game. I guess it makes sense to play this convention only when nun-vul, and open all 11-counters in first seat which would want to make an invitational bid towards a normal weak NT. In ACBL I guess you could play it if you chose not to play Stayman over it (use 2C as a sign off instead)?

We play that redouble is business and 2X shows a suit and is to play. Pass is almost forcing, asking opener to bid a 5 card suit, redouble or pass if it seems profitable. After opener's redouble responder will bid her lowest 4 card suit. A popular defence in Sweden is "Nilslands slinkningar". http://www.bridgeguys.com/Conventions/NilslandDefenseNTX.html

I'm not too familiar with 2/1, but isn't it more of a principle than a whole system? Anyway: After the opps double a major, one can play transfers (starting with 1NT). Redouble is then a balanced hand, about 8+ hcp. In this case the bidding would probably go: (P)-1S-(X)-2D*; (P)-3C-(P)-?; 2D was a transfer to hearts and since partner did not accept she probably has singleton or void. The normal bid would be 2S in this case, but partner bid 3C. This should show extras; either 5-5 or extra values. I would probably bid 3NT.

Another alternative would be to use 2NT as game forcing Stenbergs/Jacoby (where 2NT shows game forcing values and 2+ support in your case). Here's a popular variant in Sweden (some minor modifications to fit into your sequence): 1m-2M; 2NT-- 3C = Minimum, no void ..3D = Slam interest, asking for shortness ....3H = singleton clubs ....3S = singleton diamonds ....3N = singleton other major ....4X = 6332, cue bid ..3H = Slam interest, opener has singleton in other minor ..3S = Slam interest, opener has singleton in other major ..3N = Suggestion to play ..4X = Cue bid, not interested in singleton (4M is to play) 3D = Max, no shortness (so any 6322) ..3H = Slam interest, singleton other minor ..3S = Slam interest, singleton other major ..3N = Suggestion to play ..4X = Cue bid (4M is to play) 3H = Max, singleton clubs. 4X are cue bids. 3S = Max, singleton diamonds. 4X are cue bids. 3N = Max, singleton other major. 4X are cue bids. 4C = Void clubs 4D = Void diamonds 4H = Void other major

Yes, you are two steps higher than symmetric relay. In symmetric relay though responder, holding a single suiter, has 5+ cards in the major and no 4+ side suit. The way I play it, this means 5332, 6322, 6331, 7+ cards and a singleton, 7+ cards and a void. With some extreme distributions you have to lie. The thing you would have to consider, if you plan know responder's full distribution, is what kind of hands responder can hold. Can responder have more than 6 cards in the major? Can responder have a side suit, and if so can it be any side suit (other major, other minor, the minor opened)? Let's say that responder can not hold a side suit, and not more than 6 cards in the major. This leaves only two distributions: 6322 and 6331. You could then keep things pretty simple: 1m-2H; 2S-- 2N = Any 6322 ..3C = relay ....3D = 2-6-3-2 ....3H = 2-6-2-3 ....3S = 3-6-2-2 3C = 3-6-3-1 3D = 3-6-1-3 3H = 1-6-3-3 1m-2S; 2N-- 3C = Any 6322 ..3D = Relay ....3H = 6-3-2-2 ....3S = 6-2-2-3 ....3N = 6-2-3-2 3D = 6-3-1-3 3H = 6-1-3-3 3S = 6-3-3-1 The above is just an example ofcourse. You could also zoom into showing controls or whatever at the last step. Over the 6322 response an alternative might be to use the relay + 1 as a direct control asking bid (or perhaps RKC or whatever), and pretend responder has 6333. If responder could have a four card side suit things get a bit trickier. You then have to determine which suit is the side suit, and then which suit is short, and then if it is 6421 or 6430.

Interesting, I haven't seen Moscito's relay responses before. Our 1red openings allow for 5332 with a 5 card major. The responses to 1D-1H are: 1S = 4+ hearts, 4 spades (not longer spades, so 4441 if only 4 hearts) 1N = 5+ hearts, not 4 spades, or 1-4-4-4 (can be included into 1NT opening instead, as Free suggested) 2C = 4 hearts, 5+ clubs 2D = 4 hearts, 5+ diamonds 2H = 5+ hearts and a 5+ minor 2S = 6+ hearts and 5 spades This structure makes it hard to find a 4-4 minor fit, so we usually play in a 5-2 major fit instead.

Hi! Now we do not play MOSCITO exactly, but our system has evolved into something like MOSCITO but may have more in common with Magic Diamond originally. Our 1D and 1H openings can not include 4333 or 4432. We use the following continuations (similar to what you've described): 1D-- 1H = a) GF relay b) Weak balanced, usually 2 card support, wants to play opener's longest suit c) Constructive raise with 3 card support, about 8--10 d) 4+ support and an SPL, either game interest or mild slam interest 1S = 4+ spades and forcing. Usually only 4 spades if balanced and INV. 1N = TRF 4+ clubs (can be 3+ after a 1H opening). If only (3)4 then balanced INV or INV with 5-4 minors. 2C = TRF 4+ diamonds (only 4 if balanced and INV). With 5D and 4C and INV we transfer to clubs first. 2D = a) Limit raise with 3 card support, about 11-13 b) Constructive raise with 4 card support, about 8-10 2H = Preemptive raise with 3+ support and 0-7 hcp 2NT = INV+ with 4+ support Other = Preemptive The splinter alternatives in the relays could ofcourse be shown using jump shifts instead of playing jump shifts as weak. Here's a link to our system notes: system notes The document may contain some errors since we've recently shifted the system from forcing pass to strong club.

If you decide to play 4 suit transfers I'd recommend including a 2NT and 3♣ response to Stayman. This way finding 4-4 in spades (as mentioned above) gets easier and you do not have to give quite as much information to the opponents: 1NT-2♣; 2♦ = no major, as usual 2♥ = 4 hearts, not 4 spades 2♠ = 4 spades, not 4 hearts (as usual) 2NT = minimum hand with 4-4 majors 3♣ = max hand with 4-4 majors Over the 2NT and 3♣ responder can bid 3NT or transfer into a major at the 3-level (may then pass, bid game, cue bid etc).

Right now 1S-1NT; 2C-2D; is GF relay, but perhaps it shouldn't be. We'll see about how the structure works in practice. We've played transfers over our 1red openings in the previous system (same as here, but 1red showed 8-11 instead of 10-14). There's some tricky situations, and sometimes you have to guess what to do. We usually don't bid transfers with GF hands, unless balanced (we play transfering to a suit and then bidding a new suit as INV and non-forcing). Having 1S and 2C deny 4-card majors may not be a good choice, I do not know. In our previous system we had to do this due to the design of the system as a whole, while you do not have to in Moscito. For me its mostly a matter of saving space in the relays (and also being able to have the relays as symmetrical as possible) and to avoid an auction like 1S-1NT; 2M, which seems awkward when holding a weak hand. Also it seems strange that opening 2C can be done with a 4 card major, but not 4 diamonds. This would mean that with 7 clubs and 4 diamonds, you open 1S etc (like the example you gave). During practice today I held a hand with 6 diamonds and a bad 4 card major and opened 1S, intending to show it as 3361 later. From the start we thought of just modifying our old opening structure of 1S and 2m. This would make 1S 11-13 balanced, 1NT 14-16 balanced and 2m 5+ unbalanced without a 4 card major. We'll try out the Moscito variant however, which seems good and exciting, and makes 2D available for funny stuff :)

Hehe, yeah we've been playing transfer style openings in our forcing pass system, so 4-3 fits isn't unusual territory ;) We've "solved it" somewhat by being able to relay with weak hands, even if holding three-card support, but this has disadventages as well (and doesn't have the preemptive effect of 1red-2M, ofcourse).

Isn't it possible to play 1D as 3+ (almost always 4+) and 2C as 6+, if using Precision 2D? But I guess in that case you'd systematically have to open 1NT on 5422 with 5 clubs and 4 of a major, which may not be desirable. Just thought that the auction you described would happen less often..

Yeah, that's a way of doing it. I'm mostly thinking about 4432 hands or 4333 hands with 4 card major(s). It seems like we'd rather play at the best fit here (5-2 or 5-3 as opposed to 4-2 or 4-3). Do you always transfer with a 5 card major? With say 5422 I would probably bid a pass/correct bid at the two-level if available. It may be true however that this isn't much of a problem. Having 2m as two-under transfers seems good. Do you have any tips on how to play after interference over 1S?

Hi! Me and partner has decided to leave our forcing pass system for now, and adapt a strong club instead. The system will be similar to Moscito (using a MAFIA approach), but have some differences. Comments are appreciated! 1C - 15+ any 1D - 4+H (not 4333/4432), may have longer minor 1H - 4+S (not 4333/4432), may have longer minor 1S - 5-4 minors, 5-5 minors or 6+D. No major. 1NT - 11+-14 hcp, no 5 card major 2C - 6+ clubs. No major. 2D - Wilkosz (weak with 5-5 in a major and another, may be both majors) 2M - Weak 2NT - Weak with 5-5 minors 1red, 1S and 2C shows 10-14 hcp, but 8-14 (or even weaker if that seems profitable) in third seat. Over 1red we play a structure very similar to Magic Diamond, where 1NT+ is transfers. We also have the relay of 1M available however. The relay shows: a) A weakish hand wanting to play opener's longer suit b) GF values c) INV values and a splinter I did not quite like the structure I found over the Moscito 1S opener (not being able to play 2m very easily). Below is the structure I've suggested to partner, any comments? 1S-- 1NT - a) GF relay b) 4+ clubs, INV or worse c) Balanced and INV ...2C - Any hand with 4+ clubs (now 2D is GF relay, pass is clubs, others are INV) ...2D - 6+D, single suiter (pass is weak, 2H is GF relay, others are INV) 2C - pass/correct 2red - Transfer (first step shows 2-3 card support, second step shows shortness and max, 3M shows 3-cards and max, others show shortness and min) 2S - INV with at least 3-3 minors (original structure) 2NT - Limit raise in diamonds (original structure) 3C - pass/correct (original structure) 3D - To play (original structure) Another subject is the club opening. We've decided to use normal negative/GF bids instead of the Moscito structure, at least for now. Here's what we use: 1C-- 1D - Any non-GF, 0-8 hcp. We give up on relays after this response. Alternatives for better continuations? 1H - Super positive, 13/14+ or any hand that wants to relay opener for some reason 1S - GF. a) 5+ hearts b) balanced c) any 4441 d) Any 5440 with 5 clubs 1N - GF. 5+ spades 2C - GF. 5+ diamonds, single-suiter, 4+ diamonds or 4 hearts 2D - GF. 5+ clubs, no major 2H - GF. 5+ diamonds, 4 spades or any 5440 with 5 diamonds 2S - GF. 5+ clubs, 4 hearts 2N - GF. At least 5-5 majors 3C+ - GF. Zooms into hands with 5+ clubs and 4 spades In third seat we plan on using the same opening structure. Now the relays over 1red show 2-3 card support. 1N over 1S shows either 4+ clubs or a hand wanting to play 2D. Playing transfer openings in third seat may not be optimal, but partner does not like to open 4-card "may be canapé with longer clubs", which seems to be the alternative (have also thought of (3)4+ diamonds, 5+ majors, 2C 6+ and 2D precision, or even SAYC in third seat). Here's another topic: When partner opens 1C as 15+ in third seat, what should responders bid show? Straube posted some passed hand structures a while back, and I've looked at these. Here's the one I'm currently suggesting: pass-1C; 1D - Semi-positive (5-9 hcp) with a) 5-8 balanced b) 4M, 5+m c) any 4441 ...1H - Natural or GF relay ...Other - Natural (1NT 15-17, 2NT 18-19) 1H - Any double negative (0-5 hcp) or 9-11 balanced or a minimum GF 2m response (see below) which doesn't want to risk being passed out ...1S - Game forcing (now 1NT is 9-11, 2C waiting, and 2red transfers) ...1N - 15-20(21) semibal ...2X - Natural, NF ...2N - 21-24 1S - Semi-positive, 5+ hearts ...1N - Forcing no trump, if followed by 2NT then 18-19 ...2C - GF relay ...2N - INV+ with 4+ support ...3H - INV with 3-card support ...Other - Natural 1N - Semi-positive, 5+ spades ...2C - GF relay ...2S - May be only 2 card support ...2N - 18-19 ...3D - INV with 4+ support (now 3H transfers) ...3S - INV with 3-card support ...Other - Natural 2m - Semi-positive, 5+ minor and unbalanced (no major, 2C with 5-5) ...2m+1 - GF relay ...Other - INV and pretty natural (2NT over 2D shows 5+ hearts) 2H - Semi-positive, 5-5 majors (ca 5-6 hcp red vs white, to weak for Wilkosz) ...pass/2S - To play ...2N - GF relay ...3C - Good INV with hearts ...3D - Good INV with spades ...3M - Weaker INV Other - Currently undefined I think the structure above would work, but my main concern is the 1D response, which uses a set of relays which are not seen in other parts of the system and hence may be hard to remember. At last I've also thought about opening a weak NT in third/fourth seat, when partner is limited to 0-9 unbal or 0-11 bal. I've got two suggestions, which would you play?: pass-1NT; 2X - To play 2N - INV (11 balanced) 3m - INV (max for passed hand and 6 card minor) or (all bids NF unless it says otherwise) pass-1NT; 2C - Stayman, does not require a major (may want to play clubs) ...pass - May be an alternative with 5 good clubs and a hand that would not accept an INV ...2D - No major ......pass - Probably a three-suiter with short clubs ......2H - Equal length in majors, pass/correct ......2S - To play (5+ spades, 4 hearts) ......2N - INV with a 4 card major ......3m - To play (5+m and 4M or just a club suit wanting to sign off) ...2M - Natural, 2H with both ......2S - 4 spades, longer minor ......2N - INV with other major ......3m - To play Other - As above, but 2NT denies 4-card major