dwar0123

Tourny hand, so advanced robot. Going down in a cold game due too taking a finesse for an overtrick. Has to be something wrong with the risk vs reward calculations here. Something like 50% for 480 or -100. vs ~37%(or what ever odds are of jack dropping) chance at 480 or 450. A 13% better chance at 30 more points vs losing 550, not sure how gib justifies this, matchpoints or not, there are plenty of people not even in game. EDIT: I Removed spade discard comment out(per Stephen correction). [hv=sn=Dwar0123,~~M36946,~~M36944,~~M36945|st||md|1S8TQKAH3KD239TJC9%2CS35JH8JD57QC57TJA%2CS2H2679QAD46AC346%2C|rh||ah|Board%2011|sv|o|mb|1S|an|Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205%2B%20S%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%201|mb|p|mb|1N|an|Forcing%20one%20notrump%20--%203-%20S%3B%206%2B%20HCP%3B%2012-%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|2D|an|New%20suit%20--%203%2B%20D%3B%205%2B%20S%3B%2011%2B%20HCP%3B%2012-18%20t|mb|p|mb|3H|an|6%2B%20H%3B%203-%20S%3B%2010-12%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|4H|an|3%2B%20D%3B%202%2B%20H%3B%205%2B%20S%3B%2015-18%20total%20points|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|DK|pc|D2|pc|D5|pc|DA|pc|H7|pc|H5|pc|HK|pc|H8|pc|H3|pc|HJ|pc|HA|pc|H4|pc|HQ|pc|HT|pc|S8|pc|C5|pc|S2|pc|S9|pc|ST|pc|SJ|pc|CA|pc|C6|pc|C2|pc|C9|pc|DQ|pc|D6|pc|D8|pc|D3|pc|CJ|pc|C3|pc|C8|pc|D9|pc|CT|pc|C4|pc|CQ|pc|SQ|pc|CK|pc|DT|pc|C7|pc|H9|pc|D4|pc|S4|pc|DJ|pc|D7|pc|SA|pc|S5|pc|H6|pc|S6|pc|H2|pc|S7|pc|SK|pc|S3|]400|300[/hv]

Well, GIB is often wrong in these cases and perhaps we should change GIB as a result.

So the description is a logical impossibility? Should be fixed I think.

6♣ was probably a bad call, but I was doing poorly in the tourny and needed a swing. I also played poorly, but at this point I didn't care. Anyway, gib hand doesn't look anything like the description. [hv=sn=Dwar0123,~~M42027,~~M42025,~~M42026|st||md|1S24QKH357D67QC6KA%2CS56TH28JQD23C578Q%2CS7AH4D58TJKAC39TJ%2C|rh||ah|Board%2011|sv|o|mb|1C|an|Minor%20suit%20opening%20--%203%2B%20C%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%201|mb|p|mb|1D|an|One%20over%20one%20--%204%2B%20D%3B%206%2B%20total%20points%20|mb|1H|an|5%2B%20H%3B%207%2B%20HCP%3B%208%2B%20total%20points%20|mb|1S|an|3%2B%20C%3B%203-%20D%3B%203-%20H%3B%204%2B%20S%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22|mb|3H|an|4%2B%20H%3B%204-8%20total%20points%20|mb|5C|an|5%2B%20C%3B%204%2B%20D%3B%2017-18%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|6C|an|3%2B%20C%3B%203-%20D%3B%203-%20H%3B%204%2B%20S%3B%2021-%20HCP%3B%2016-22%20t|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|HQ|pc|H4|pc|HT|pc|H3|pc|ST|pc|SA|pc|S3|pc|S2|pc|CJ|pc|C4|pc|C6|pc|CQ|pc|H2|pc|C3|pc|H9|pc|H5|pc|C9|pc|C2|pc|CK|pc|C7|pc|CA|pc|C8|pc|CT|pc|D4|pc|SK|pc|S5|pc|S7|pc|SJ|pc|DQ|pc|D2|pc|D5|pc|D9|pc|D7|pc|D3|pc|DK|pc|S9|pc|DA|pc|S8|pc|D6|pc|C5|pc|HJ|pc|D8|pc|HK|pc|H7|pc|HA|pc|S4|pc|H8|pc|DT|pc|H6|pc|SQ|pc|S6|pc|DJ|]400|300[/hv]

I am positive I can not have 5♥ in this auction and pretty sure I can't even have 4. Hand is being described as up to 5♥, causing the gib player to pull a far superior contract. Also, gib is again lying about its distribution. [hv=sn=Dwar0123,~~M42027,~~M42025,~~M42026|st||md|1S479QKAH56AD67C6J%2CS356JH378D59KC57A%2CSTH2TJQD248AC9TQK%2C|rh||ah|Board%207|sv|b|mb|1S|an|Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205%2B%20S%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%201|mb|p|mb|2D|an|Forcing%20two%20over%20one%20--%20biddable%20D%3B%2014%2B%20total%20points%3B%20forcing%20to%203N%20|mb|p|mb|2S|an|Opener%20rebids%20suit%20--%205%2B%20S%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%201|mb|p|mb|3C|an|4%2B%20C%3B%205%2B%20D%3B%2014%2B%20total%20points%3B%20forcing%20to%203N%20|mb|p|mb|3N|an|5-%20H%3B%205-6%20S%3B%2011-18%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20poin|mb|p|mb|4H|an|4%2B%20C%3B%205%2B%20D%3B%204%2B%20H%3B%2014%2B%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|C2|pc|C6|pc|CA|pc|C9|pc|C7|pc|CK|pc|C3|pc|CJ|pc|CQ|pc|C4|pc|D6|pc|C5|pc|DA|pc|D3|pc|D7|pc|D5|pc|D8|pc|DT|pc|H6|pc|D9|pc|SA|pc|S6|pc|ST|pc|S2|pc|SK|pc|S5|pc|D4|pc|S8|pc|SQ|pc|S3|pc|HT|pc|DJ|pc|D2|pc|DQ|pc|H5|pc|DK|pc|S9|pc|SJ|pc|HJ|pc|HK|pc|H4|pc|HA|pc|H7|pc|H2|pc|S7|pc|H8|pc|HQ|pc|C8|pc|CT|pc|H9|pc|S4|pc|H3|]400|300[/hv]

As the confused individual who is clearly wrong, I am still confused and if you could clarify a few things for me I would appreciate it. My understanding of takeout doubles is that you should have 16 points to make one at the 3rd level. Obviously you can't have 16 points as a passed hand and thus the definition of this bid in this situation is open to a different interpretation, but I felt the reasons that you should have 16 points would still apply. Ie, you are forcing your partner to bid at least at the 3 level and should have enough strength to minimize the chances of being doubled and set a large number. At the 3rd level, I thought this number was 16. West in this situation is still unlimited(to 20) and could easily be 4-4 in the majors, in which case you are going for a very large number. There is this risk in all bids but it still seems to me to be unusually substantial in this situation. This lesson was pounded into me one day when(with a slightly weaker but same distributional hand) I went for 1100 after this auction. P(me)-1♦-p-1nt X-XX-p-p 2♥-x-passout Granted 1nt is 6-9 rather then 0-6, but I was only forcing the 2 level. The good player opposite me left in disgust commenting that my bid was insane and upon reflection I felt he was right. I am not yet seeing much difference between the two situations.

South clearly can not have between 2-5 hearts in this auction. In fact, south clearly can not have even 3 hearts after bidding 3nt. Yes, I should have bid 3♣, which would have properly reduced my min number of hearts to 1(I am still learning how to out guess gib in these auctions), but we can still improve on the description here. GIB's bidding is wrong no matter what I could hold. [hv=sn=Dwar0123,~~M8025,~~M8023,~~M8024|st||md|1S789KAH5DTJQC28JK%2CS2345JH346QDKC46Q%2CS6H27TJKD5689AC3A%2C|rh||ah|Board%2011|sv|o|mb|1S|an|Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205%2B%20S%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%201|mb|p|mb|2H|an|Forcing%20two%20over%20one%20--%205%2B%20H%3B%2013%2B%20total%20points%3B%20forcing%20to%203N%20|mb|p|mb|2N|an|2-5%20C%3B%202-5%20D%3B%202-5%20H%3B%205%20S%3B%2011-14%20HCP%3B%2012%2B|mb|p|mb|3D|an|4%2B%20D%3B%205%2B%20H%3B%2013%2B%20total%20points%3B%20forcing%20to%203N%20|mb|p|mb|3N|an|2-5%20C%3B%202-5%20D%3B%202-5%20H%3B%205%20S%3B%2011-14%20HCP%3B%2012%2B|mb|p|mb|4H|an|4%2B%20D%3B%206%2B%20H%3B%2013%2B%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|CT|pc|CJ|pc|CQ|pc|CA|pc|S6|pc|ST|pc|SA|pc|S2|pc|H5|pc|H4|pc|HJ|pc|HA|pc|SQ|pc|SK|pc|S5|pc|D5|pc|DQ|pc|DK|pc|DA|pc|D4|pc|HK|pc|H8|pc|C2|pc|H6|pc|H2|pc|H9|pc|C8|pc|H3|pc|C9|pc|CK|pc|C4|pc|C3|pc|DJ|pc|HQ|pc|D6|pc|D7|pc|C6|pc|HT|pc|C7|pc|S7|pc|D8|pc|D2|pc|DT|pc|S3|pc|S9|pc|SJ|pc|H7|pc|D3|pc|D9|pc|C5|pc|S8|pc|S4|]400|300[/hv]

Gawd, it is a craptastic 1nt, you wouldn't do this opposite a human playing 15-17 nt. The entire problem is that you are so used to doing this with GIB that you don't see it as a problem anymore. You do this not because it is good bridge, you do this because it avoids putting the gib in a position where it makes mistakes. This is a problem that can be fixed. The gib isn't some static entity for which the only solution is to slavishly adapt too, it can be improved and we shouldn't blind ourselves to its problems just because many have learned to deal with it. The goal should be good bridge, not good Gib dealing with.

Another fine example of gib failing the turing test in spectacular fashion. This may be the worst pair of bids I have seen anyone or thing ever make. Until the programmers get a handle on this, I would suggest you steer clear of making any bid that is described as being 25+ total points. Gib tends to massively overbid when responding, often in ways that wouldn't even make sense if you did have 25+ total points.

Gib does this a lot. I think a lot of the success with playing with gib is figuring out how to bid in such a way that gib doesn't do things like this. Hence people opening this craptastic 14hcp 1nt. The description states he has 6, he has 5. I have even seen him pull 3nt with a flatter hand, really need to tone this down. [hv=sn=Dwar0123,~~M26279,~~M26277,~~M26278|st||md|1S9JAH46D4QAC48TJQ%2CS47H35KAD2367JKC2%2CSKH28TJQD58TC59KA%2C|rh||ah|Board%203|sv|e|mb|1C|an|Minor%20suit%20opening%20--%203%2B%20C%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%201|mb|1D|an|One-level%20overcall%20--%205%2B%20D%3B%208-17%20HCP%3B%209-19%20total%20points%20|mb|1H|an|Free%20bid%20--%204%2B%20H%3B%206%2B%20total%20points%3B%20forcing%20|mb|p|mb|1N|an|3-5%20C%3B%202-5%20D%3B%202-3%20H%3B%202-3%20S%3B%2012-14%20HCP|mb|2D|an|6%2B%20D%3B%2017-%20HCP%3B%2012-19%20total%20points%20|mb|3C|an|4%2B%20C%3B%204%2B%20H%3B%209%2B%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|3N|an|3-5%20C%3B%202-5%20D%3B%202-3%20H%3B%202-3%20S%3B%2012-14%20HCP%3B%20l|mb|p|mb|4H|an|4%2B%20C%3B%206%2B%20H%3B%2013%2B%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|D9|pc|DA|pc|D7|pc|DT|pc|H6|pc|HK|pc|H2|pc|H7|pc|DK|pc|D5|pc|S2|pc|D4|pc|D6|pc|D8|pc|H9|pc|DQ|pc|C3|pc|C4|pc|C2|pc|C5|pc|HQ|pc|ST|pc|H4|pc|HA|pc|S7|pc|SK|pc|S8|pc|SJ|pc|HJ|pc|S3|pc|C8|pc|H5|pc|HT|pc|S5|pc|CT|pc|H3|pc|C9|pc|C6|pc|CQ|pc|S4|pc|SA|pc|DJ|pc|CK|pc|S6|pc|S9|pc|D2|pc|H8|pc|SQ|pc|CA|pc|C7|pc|CJ|pc|D3|]400|300[/hv]

Really don't understand the 3♦ bid. [hv=sn=Dwar0123,~~M54803,~~M54801,~~M54802|st||md|3S9AHQKD79TC2367JK%2CS25JH26JD38KC458A%2CS36TQKH347D25QC9Q%2C|rh||ah|Board%209|sv|e|mb|p|mb|p|mb|1C|an|Minor%20suit%20opening%20--%203%2B%20C%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%201|mb|p|mb|1S|an|One%20over%20one%20--%204%2B%20S%3B%2011-%20HCP%3B%206-12%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|1N|an|3-5%20C%3B%202-5%20D%3B%202-4%20H%3B%202-3%20S%3B%2012-14%20HCP|mb|p|mb|p|mb|2H|an|4%2B%20H%3B%2011-%20HCP%3B%2010-12%20total%20points%20|mb|3C|an|4-5%20C%3B%202-5%20D%3B%202-4%20H%3B%202-3%20S%3B%2014-%20HCP%3B%2016%2B|mb|p|mb|3D|an|2-4%20C%3B%204-6%20D%3B%202-5%20H%3B%204-5%20S%3B%2010-%20HCP%3B%207%2B%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|CT|pc|C2|pc|C5|pc|CQ|pc|S3|pc|S4|pc|SA|pc|S5|pc|S9|pc|SJ|pc|SK|pc|S7|pc|SQ|pc|S8|pc|C3|pc|S2|pc|ST|pc|H5|pc|DT|pc|DK|pc|CA|pc|C9|pc|H8|pc|C6|pc|C8|pc|H3|pc|D4|pc|CK|pc|HA|pc|HQ|pc|H2|pc|H4|pc|H9|pc|HK|pc|H6|pc|H7|pc|CJ|pc|C4|pc|D5|pc|D6|pc|HT|pc|D7|pc|HJ|pc|S6|pc|D9|pc|D8|pc|DQ|pc|DA|pc|DJ|pc|C7|pc|D3|pc|D2|]400|300[/hv]

Id open 1♥ and then bid 3♣ and then pull 3nt to 4♣

I swear it's a conspiracy!

2/1 imps [hv=pc=n&s=saj542ha765djt85c&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=pp1s2cpp]133|200[/hv] Double, pass or bid?

Ah thanks, another bad habit identified and understood. This does seem about 2 points weaker then what I remembered when I last played bridge a lot 20 years ago but it certainty makes sense.

I actually think it is better to show examples like this because they are very common. You shouldn't just play this way when it is 100% sure to work :)

Playing 2/1 with 5 card majors. [hv=pc=n&s=sa543h7daj3cj6432&d=n&v=e&b=9&a=pp1sp2cppp]133|200[/hv] 2♣ correctly alerted as drury. First time I ever opened a 4 card major and it was a really crappy one at that, but the look on my partners face when I passed 2♣, well it was online, but I bet it was priceless :) I dunno, I thought it was amusing and not entirely without merit, was a really good board but that might just be resulting.

I'd bid 3♣ but I would not be happy about it. For the play problem, I would raise with the A♠ and lead a diamond intending to run the 8. This wins vs all but 1 2-2*, 4-0 break onside and every 3-1 onside break except kq7. There is no play that takes in kq9 or kq97 offsides. If the 8 forces out a diamond honor and then 9 shows up in rho next round, restricted choice would suggest not playing for the drop. So this play will lose kq offsides. I will try to ruff out the q♥ to establish them for losers that dummy cant ruff.

This is an obvious 4♦ bid to me, it sets trumps, describes my hand and lets partner know how to evaluate diamond honors, which with my hand is very crucial. Reading these forums, I was led to believe 2nt was reserved for flat hands with nothing left to describe. Yet here it is being advocated with lots left to describe. From this thread, I am gathering that splinter bids are for hands that are flat in the other 3 suits?

nm, figured it out

Ah thanks, is there any place were we can find out what gib does defensively? It appears to always gives count when a suit is lead(assuming it doesn't feel the need to rise with an honor), but if that involves doing a high low it rarely completes the echo. Ie, it will play the 4 from 9842 and 984. But when it is played a second time, it is apt to play the 9. It also does lead 4th best but also 3rd best from garbage, which confuses the issue. Are there any other signals that it does?

I was going over some hands trying to infer what gib does, if anything, for defensive signals. I thought gib was giving standard count to partners lead until I came across this hand. Any idea why it broke with count in this situation or was it just a coincidence all the other hands I looked at? And if you watch how the gib robot declared the hand, it seems that it knew very well how the suits were splitting. [hv=sn=Dwar0123,~~M52150,~~M52148,~~M52149|st||md|1S48KH23KDKC568QKA%2CS2AH569QD2578C27J%2CS356TQH4TAD4TJQC4%2C|rh||ah|Board%2011|sv|o|mb|1C|an|Minor%20suit%20opening%20--%203%2B%20C%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%201|mb|p|mb|1S|an|One%20over%20one%20--%204%2B%20S%3B%206%2B%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|3C|an|Opener%20rebid%20--%206%2B%20C%3B%2017-20%20total%20points|mb|p|mb|3D|an|New%20suit%20--%204%2B%20D%3B%205%2B%20S%3B%209%2B%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|3S|an|6%2B%20C%3B%203%2B%20S%3B%2019-20%20total%20points|mb|p|mb|4S|an|4%2B%20D%3B%205%2B%20S%3B%209-12%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|DA|pc|DK|pc|D2|pc|D4|pc|H8|pc|H2|pc|HQ|pc|HA|pc|C4|pc|C3|pc|CA|pc|C2|pc|CK|pc|C7|pc|H4|pc|C9|pc|CQ|pc|CJ|pc|S5|pc|CT|pc|DQ|pc|D3|pc|C8|pc|D5|pc|DJ|pc|D6|pc|H3|pc|D7|pc|DT|pc|D9|pc|C5|pc|D8|pc|HT|pc|H7|pc|HK|pc|H9|pc|S4|pc|S2|pc|SQ|pc|S9|pc|S6|pc|S7|pc|S8|pc|SA|pc|H5|pc|ST|pc|HJ|pc|C6|pc|S3|pc|SJ|pc|SK|pc|H6|]=400|300[/hv]

Ok, here is my guess. [hv=pc=n&s=s95hkq85dak8ck864&w=shjt7dqj976cat753&n=sajt863h942dt542c&e=skq742ha63d3cqj92]399|300[/hv]

That is all nice and logical, just as you would expect a computer program to be, but can we adjust something so that it doesn't make such a silly bid? Some obvious issues. 1. South can't have 4♥, he didn't double. 2. While the hand might be described as 25 points if the intent was to make, a part score or game sac here might be considered by some. It is far more likely south has a very distributional 20 total point hand. 3. Even if the hand is described as 25 points, it is clearly not hcp and blindly pulling partners 25 total point diamond hand into an unsupported 4 card major is not good bridge. I think stephen tu suggested in another thread that any hand that gets described as 25+ total points is suspect. The gib robot bidding goes off the rails, bearing little resemblance to what a human would do and fairly universally wrong as the cards lie. The majority of human players got this one wrong and I would wager that of those that got this one right, most got it right only because they knew the gib robot would screw it up and declined to make the normal bid. Sure I can learn to adapt to the gib robot, but is that what we really want people to do? Can't we also improve the gib robot?