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trick 1 duck I have been fooled before by some ingenious lho leading a presumably dead Kx and finding p with just the right holding. I also prefer the OPPS lead another spade (to get me 2 spade tricks if available) since I am very short of entries. trick 2 spade J and assuming that holds trick 3 dia Q and you optimists were worried about a 4/1 split hehe trick 4 spade ace going to try and set up a successful endplay sequence trick 5 club J and what happens next will depend on the defense if lho wins the club J trick 6 they cash spade and we pitch dia from dummy and heart from hand lho cannot play another club or we will score 3c 3d 2s 1h and if lho leads a heart they will guarantee us 2h 2c 2s 3d (we still have the dia K as an entry to cash a club trick) if lho ducks the club trick trick 6 dia to K trick 7 heart J and DUCK if covered or run it (this still leaves us with a chance for 2s 3h 3d 1c) trick 8 lho cashes spade and we pitch dia from dummy and heart from hand (we need to keep a dia for late entry to dummy) trick 9 lho can cash the club A (pitch another dia from dummy) but then they have to play a heart and solve our heart problem for us OR they can play a club and we score 2s 1h 3d 3c if lho instead returns a small club vs cashing the ace we win the 9 and return the K (pitching hearts from dummy as needed to club plays) once again going for 2s 1h 3d 3c OR setting up the grand finale as in trick 9 above. this lop fails whenever rho can win the first heart play AND has the incredible foresight to return a heart a low % chance given the bidding (IMHO) OR rho stared with heart Hxx and our duck on the first heart cover set up 2h 2s and 1c for the opps (a much higher but still small % chance IMHO)

these types of hands pop up infrequently but the principle remains the same. LOOK INTO THE FUTURE. Can you dream up a bidding sequence that will allow your side to discover the proper level/strain. If so, then pursue it - otherwise bid what you think you can make. Your side might be cold for 7c opposite void Axxx xxx xxxxxx but how in the world can you find that contract? Even if you could, the NVUL opps might find a very profitable 7 red sac. Be practical and bid 4s. Eat up as much room as possible so it becomes just as tough for the opps to find their best spot as it is for your side.

my apologies if my response was unclear. The reason for forcing to 3s is because responder has at least 5 of them along with the club length (IF they are minimum). This is NOT because responder wishes to sign off in 3c opposite a minimum but to allow opener to better judge how their hand looks, somewhat similar to a HSGT. A simple 1c 1s 2s 3s might suffice with say Kxxx Kxx xx KQxx but 3c is a vastly superior descriptor with a holding like Kxxxx xx x Kxxxx. So they 3c bid can be used both to show this type of minimum AND anything else stronger. Again I feel it is worth the extra level of bidding if opener is minimum and prefers to play the minor vs the major (cases especially where they raised with 3 card support to begin with. This allows opener to bid 3s with a min and 4 card support (or in the instance opener is 3433 and no game aspirations) and 4c if the original raise was with 3 cards since there is a large % chance the minor will play better than the major.

What hand type are we catering to when playing the 3c bid as non forcing? I picture some hand like KQJT x xx 975432 where we are seriously worried about not only being stuck in a moysian but every ruff we make at 2s can all too easily be promoting another trump trick for the opps. This is a valid concern BUT I feel the target is too tiny. Since there are an enormous number of hands that might benefit from a 3c showing extra values I feel the 3c bid should be at least forcing to 3S. Once you agree that 3c has to be forcing the weaker hand can be shown with a jump to 4c over 2s. This will make balancing a bit tougher for the opps and it seems well worth it to spend the extra level showing a weak hand rather then wasting the entire 3 level when one has a strong hand. Partner will be well placed to decide strain/level over 4c and deciding to x or not to x if the opps enter the bidding.

no matter what 3 card holding p has returning the heart 6 next seems to cater to it with even a smidgeon of attitude for spades.

I am pretty sure cybers sequence does NOT show both majors. His decision to go this route is based on the concept that w/o at least a 9 card fit game is unlikely so he is choosing to exit as quickly as possible. The 2h bid merely asks opener to pass if they hold 3 hearts or bid 2s (hoping opener did not open 1n with 2245 hand). Responder's hand using this system could be something like xxx xxxx x xxxxx and using stayman with the hope of improving the contract from a doomed 1n. Using stayman this way essentially gives up on showing game potential with hands like the one posted for this problem (unless a 9 card fit is found).

I admit that given how things have gone so far I would be much more tempted to play LHO for the spade Q. I do not believe rho would bid much differently with or w/o the possession of the spade Q but LHO (IMHO) would be vastly more likely to overcall 1h with Qxx KQJxxx Qx xx than with xxx KQJxxx Qx xx which has to look a lot more like a 2h preempt than a 1h overcall.

what is the common bidding sequence that gets us to 3n??? hmmm not entirely sure eh -- that means we are in a GREAT contract and we have been lucky (say what) enough to avoid a possibly lethal spade lead. I rise take my ten tricks and hope to get even luckier in the discarding phase.

5 spades all scoring forms. We are doing our best to try and make THEM guess how high and where they belong. There is JUST enough wiggle room for them to have doubt. If I was certain they had all the aces I would bid 7s instead and I am severly tempted even under these circumstances.

negative x If opener does NOT have a spade fit we can concentrate on clubs for slam purposes. If we bid 3c whatever follows might all too easily become murky. What would 3s mean over 3c? 4 spades maybe a spade stop no dia stop w/o 6 hearts?. Even 2n leaves us in a pickle since we will have no way to easily discover if the dia stop is QJx or Axx or Kxx a HUGE difference when thinking about slam especially clubs from our side. The x could yield a huge side benefit of p bidding 3c making slam exploration hugely safer since if p does have something like Kx of diamonds it is guarded against the opening lead. If perchance partner bids 2n over our x I will continue with 3d and bid 4c (slam try) over the almost inevitable 3n. If p bids 3n I have an easy 4c bid slam try.

11 hearts and 1h 2h? hmmmmm seriously tempted to play rho for (43)41(45) with the 2h bid made primarily to take that bid away from us rather than anything meaningful. That means I am thinking lho looks something like xx(x) KQxxxxx Qxx (void x). If the hands are set up that way I cant avoid a club loser but I can use the 4th club to endplay rho. trick 1 win heart (probably the ONLY play anyone else will agree with) trick 2 diamond to K trick 3 diamond intending to finesse the J IF the J loses rho is immediately endplayed into hopefully solving part of our remaining LOP problems IF the J holds trick 4 dia Ace pulling last trump trick 5 club ace trick 6 club to J IF the J loses lho is endplayed unless they began with void KQxxxxx Qxx Qxx (hard to imagine they passed 2h with that) IF the J holds trick 7 club K and assuming we are doomed to lose a club trick 8 play the club and endplay rho into solving our spade problem. If we somehow have no club loser then treat yourself to some extra brain strain figuring our how to make 7. IMPS or MP?:))))))

never get into a gunfight with a pea shooter. With anything less than a reasonable 16 you are guaranteed to be significantly outgunned. That means lots of risk with not much prospect for reward. If we are NV vs VUL a lesser hand might x with the concept being the location of a good save but even then anything less than 14 just seems to be asking for trouble.

[hv=pc=n&n=sk5432hk5432d32c2&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=1n(15-17)p]133|200[/hv] no choices what do you intend to do and why? IMPS

partner couldn't rebid spades so poor chance of running spade suit and if hearts cannot run immediately 3n could have serious problems. With the good heart spots and 6 bagger I think 4h is a more obvious choice than 3n.

Why do you imagine it to be so tough for partner to hold the QJ of hearts when it seems easy for you to imagine the spade ace? If p has the spade J we are far more likely to score only 2 spade tricks when the opps hold up the ace for 2 rounds whereas leading a small heart might readily get us 3 or even 4/5 heart tricks and might mess with the opps communications something a spade lead is highly unlikely to accomplish.

Normally I would lead the heart J trying to hit partner. IF we are playing a system where 2c shows a one suited hand I would lead a small club since p could easily be afraid of showing clubs which would have to be played at the 3 level.

its MP we do not need to scramble for low % game chances. Pass over 2h seems best. P has heard the 2nd x and N does not have much in the way of extras. At IMPS I would try 3h.

I will assume you have plenty of entries and losing the lead is of little importance. For FOUR tricks it is best to play the 75% line of the double finesse finessing against the J first by leading the T followed by the 9 and small to 8 if needed. This LOP will guarantee 4 tricks against all holdings except when rho holds both missing honors. When ONLY TWO tricks are needed it is more interesting if you do not care about overtricks I would start with the ACE and then lead up to the Q (see next sentence). This LOP leaves you in the same position as those that lead to the Q immediately and has the additional benefit of picking up the KJ doubleton offside and seeing the first 3 cards the opps play before deciding which card to play to the 2nd round. IF you cannot afford to lose the lead then leading to the Q is best by far. Please ignore all those "cute" responses on ways to hold yourself to only 2 tricks sigh.

I see a theme here. You guess as to the best contract and then feel unlucky when your "correct" guesses do not pan out. Hand 1 how did u know partner had the spade vs heart ace or ANY ace for that matter. What made you think 6d was better than 5d or 7d or 7n? Hand 2 you do not include all the bidding descriptions but what made you think 7d was superior to 7s or 7n? You may not have had the system tools needed to arrive at the best theoretical contract but on hand 1 you did not even appear to try. Just a thought

This is probably NOT the time to disagree with the number 2 option but sighhhhhhh here goes. At these colors if I have 1 more spade and missing both AQ combos I would bid 4s. In this instance, with the opening bidder to my right, Kxxx of clubs and out has the making of a good looking slam. If perchance p happened to bid 3c over the x I would be hard pressed to not bid 5h (exclusion) bidding 7s if partner showed 2 keys

the system itself (essentially natural) should not have a huge effect on you normal bidding. I have zero problems bidding 1n over 1s. The key factor for me is the double stop against the known long suit (hearts). There is indeed danger involved with bidding (like anywhere else) but allowing oneself to get locked out with a powerful hand is much more likely to lead to disaster then bidding at a low level. If you choose pass originally having to compete with 2n is hugely vastly more dangerous. I do not like the sandwich concept so I never used it and I can't recall the last time it was used effectively against me.

An odd time to post this statement when the target gave zero information on how miraculous their bidding system is. I will now go back and read the rest of your ideas since I respect the information you provide sorry about getting sidetracked over something that appeared to be petty and useless.

w/o sophisticated understandings some hands must be relegated to guesswork (ugh). If we carefully look at this hand we realize that even if p has 3 aces and the dia K we are limited to 11 tricks if they also hold a doubleton heart. Once we realize that and also our shortcomings in the investigative arts is there any logical course of action? It seems to me a simple 4n bid should suffice. Assuming your p will accept with a control laden hand (not just any old 17 count) there is probably little downside and the extra level will probably not be damaging vs 3n if the opps were to run spades or clubs. If an opp could not resist x (especially if they are on lead) over 4n I would run flee scurry to 5d.

I would try for a practical chance (ie a chance w/o hoping against hope for a really outlandish card holding. I would start by assuming lho led a stiff diamond and held Qxxx hearts and the spade ace. Assuming a singleton dia is hardly off the wall as rho passed 2d x when they had a easy 2h bid asking lho to bid their major (I assume or at least xx to accomplish the same thing). trick 1 win dia ace (not risking overtake and them running 6 spade tricks) trick 2/3/4/5 clubs who knows maybe discards will be difficult for opps (not likely) trick 6 heart K at the very least I now have book so I am no worse off then I would have been ducking a dia at trick 1 and suffering a 6 card spade switch. trick 7 heart to J. the intention is to throw lho in with their presumed 4th heart so they have to give us a spade trick for number 9. I do not expect this to work but I am in a poor overbid contract that is lucky to have any play at all.

I have often wondered if the straight spade finesse or 33 hearts is a better option than playing for 33 hearts OR either opp holding the long hearts and the spade K (Vienna coupe). Seems like the coupe is more likely to be frustrating to the opps and if the finesse would have won and the coupe fails you can always beg forgiveness from partner because you have not seen your picture in the papers lately. I am pretty certain I would always go for the coupe if I was in 7n with a dia lead