32519

My request to you was this: convince me how you separate the theory of evolution from the BBT and still keep the theory of evolution standing. What you have gone and done is this – 1. You have separated the evolution theory from the BBT. But in order to keep it standing you have tied it to God. By doing that, not only have you acknowledged that God is real and that he exists, you have also acknowledged that he is the creator of the universe. Put differently, you have now changed sides. You and I are now working side by side, so there is no need for me to leave. 2. Alternatively, you have separated the theory of evolution from the BBT but are searching all around youself for something to tie it to. Until you tell me what you are tying it to, you have not met my request, so there is no need for me to leave.

Barmar: The thread in the Water Cooler has been locked. Two requests - 1. Who got you to lock it? 2. Kindly unlock it. These guys need to hear the truth and the truth will set them free.

That thread is now locked, so I need to reply here: I fail to understand why you want me to go away now that we are working on the same side. The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few, so pray to the Lord of the harvest to compel more workers into his harvest. I don’t know how many scientists are lurking in the background, following this thread, but they can see the maths unfolding here – 1. 1 has become 2 2. 2 will become 4 3. 4 will become 8 4. Until eventually we are all on the same side That thread is now locked, so I need to reply here: When Richard crossed over to side with your opposition, the original agreement was automatically cancelled. The agreement which I made with Richard I make with all of you, individually or collectively. Convince me how you separate the theory of Evolution from the BBT and still keep the theory of Evolution standing. Convince me and I go. Change sides then we begin working together. The agreement gets cancelled and I stay. Here is a suggestion: Start a private conversation on your name where I have no access to what is being discussed. Invite those to join the private conversation who have a proven track record for developing all these theories, and collectively prepare your answer; strategise, plot and scheme until all the members of the private conversion are in agreement as to what you are going to post in this thread. Then choose your fall guy to make the post, or you can post it collectively. The choice is yours. If you manage to convince me, I go. Deal or no deal? Allow me to make a prediction. When you see it happening, know that you read it in this post first. The Prediction: In the very near future an almighty fight is going to break out amongst you guys, the evolutionists bashing the physicists over the head with, “You fools, look what you have gone and done with your stupid BBT. Over a period stretching longer than 100 years we have “perfected” the Theory of Evolution. Now you guys have gone and destroyed all our hard work. Guess what? The fight is going to get worse when the physicists start turning on each other in search of a scape goat. When their ship starts sinking, like rats they are going to be jumping off in all directions. The ship? You guessed it, the LHC. Those doggedly fighting on when all others have fled are going to resurrect the LHC. The Large Hadron Collider will get a new name, the LARGER Hadron Collider as they keep on building “bigger” and “better.” These will be but the beginning of birth-pangs for the physicists. Why? One by one they will be changing sides, and as they do, they are going to be bringing along with themselves all sorts of these unproven theories of yours. And they are going to start appearing in all sorts of magazines and newspaper articles or whatever. Physics as we currently know it is going to come crashing down, lying in ruins alongside your precious theory of evolution. Why? Every household divided against itself cannot stand. If evolutionists are casting out physicists and physicists are casting out evolutionists, how can your household stand? For the fight to start, a catalyst is needed. What could that catalyst be? It’s a no-brainer. There are plenty of lurkers who keep on coming back to this thread to see what’s going on here. At the time this post was made the number of views stood at 3620. Watch that number as it steadily rises. Amongst those lurkers, there are believers. They are going to start making printouts of this entire thread and start publishing the contents in their church bulletins. The headlines in big bold print? “The physicists have destroyed the theory of evolution!” And the news will keep spreading. For more than 100 years the evolutionists have been ramming the Theory of Evolution down our throats. Now its our turn to start ramming the flaw in the BBT down your throats. At the point where you start gagging, you too will change sides. You read it here first!

I hope you can see the wisdom in this post of yours? Let me ask you this – 1. How much paint is left in your tin? 2. Stated differently (the same question), how small is the corner that you are busy painting yourself into. I’ll answer the top one for you. You have acknowledged that God is real. The creation was at his hands. From then onwards the process of evolution took over. In other words, you yourself are the first among those vehemently defending the BBT that it is absolutely stupid. You have become the first defector to the opposition. I welcome you with open arms my brother. The angels in heaven are now singing and dancing around the throne of God. I say it to you again – welcome home brother!

Don't bother about point 1. There is enough info available. I am more interested in your point 2. Convince me how you managed to separate the theory of evolution entirely from the BBT, allowing it to remain standing all on its own. You can ask PassedOut to assisst you. The LHC team has tasked him to start collecting new theories to explain the origins of the universe. Convince me, and I'll give you guys a break.

You have overlooked my first requirement. Stick post 249 onto your fridge, then take a snapshot of it and post it in this thread. If you cannot meet something as simple as that, then I place no value on anything else you post here.

Sorry Vampyr, but you are just utterly wrong with the reasons for turning off the LHC. I was peeking over the wall again to see what MikeH was up to. Great was my surprise when I saw Richard Wiley there with him. So I listened in on what they were discussing. Wiley was telling MikeH that I would go away if the LHC delivered. So MikeH got onto his cell phone and phoned the guy heading up the project. His question was straight forward, “How long will it take for the LHC to deliver?” When the guy answered, “Never,” MikeH had a near fatal heart-attack. In sheer panic he began screaming out, “What do you mean, never? What are you going to do then?” The other guy did his best to calm MikeH down, “Listen MikeH, we are among the lurkers following that pesky thread. If we continue with the LHC we are going surrender out Ace of trumps to the opposition, the theory of Evolution. We have perfected this over a period stretching more than 100 years. Would you like to see that go up in smoke alongside the BBT?” MikeH started whimpering, “No, no, of course not. That question is equally stupid to the BBT.” I don’t think MikeH realised what he had said until Wiley slapped him in the face with a stern reprimand, “Did you hear what you have just said? Are you defecting to the opposition? Traitor!” Now Wiley was really angry, with MikeH staggering backwards at the force of the slap. “Did I really say that?” he asked Wiley in disbelief. He did his best to apologise but Wiley wasn’t buying it, who immediately snatched the cell phone out of MikeH’s hand. The guy heading up the LHC was still on the line. “Did you hear all that?” Wiley asked him. “Yes,” I heard. “So then what are you guys going to do?” “Wiley, it’s a no-brainer. We are going to turn off the LHC and present a fake excuse to the world why we switched it off. The 9 billion set aside for the project has already been increased 3-times, much in the same way that the USAs debt ceiling is continually increased.” “How long do you intend switching it off?” “For two years.” “Two years! Why two years? Who decided on the two years?” “It was gwnn’s suggestion. That 32519 guy asked you for feedback in a year from now, the 16th of October 2014. We want to save your ass, but more importantly, we want to save ours as well from further embarrassment. Hopefully in two years time 32519 will have gone away all by himself and everyone will have forgotten about that pesky thread.” “So what are you guys going to be doing during the two year interim period?” “We will be brainstorming all sorts of new theories for the origin of the universe. We might even resurrect some of the older ones which we ourselves have discarded, dust them off and represent them to all non-scientists. We have roped in PassedOut to start gathering in new ideas/theories from every scientist who has utterly rejected the possibility that a super-natural being after all did really create the universe and everything in it. He placed us all under a lot of pressure when he posted, ‘There is no plausible alternative to the theory of evolution.” There you have it my beautiful sister. From the horses mouth. They have faked the reason for turning off the LHC. Nobody wants to lose the theory of evolution after continuously bashing everyone on the head with it who didn’t buy into it along with the scientists.

How about you? Have you seen these words anywhere before? "Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please." —- Mark Twain Why is it that you guys are doing the exact opposite? You got no facts or logic on the BBT, only a theory, but you have managed to convince each other it is fact. And to back it up with gwnn's flawless logic, you have gone and made all sorts of meaningless calculations, which the likes of the MikeH's of the world proudly quote as fact?

Have you seen these words anywhere before? ... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic. George Carlin There is zero logic in the BIG BANG theory. If there was you would have been able to answer my previous question to you.

Are you also a scientist? If then, tell me how you produce the BANG when you got nothing? When I asked MikeH he threw all his toys out the cot. Then I asked gwnn. He too failed to offer anything. So now its your turn to fly the flag for every scientist who supports the BIG BANG theory. How do you produce the BANG with a big fat nothing at your disposal? How much time do you need? But your request brings a smile to my face. It is simple enough and I will agree to it if you also agree to my request, which is this 1. Cut out post 249 of this thread and stick it on your fridge. Then on the 16th of October every year (the date when the post was made) come and update this forum on LHC developments. 2. Your update must include a. Progress b. Failures c. Latest actual spend on the LHC Deal or no deal?

It what way is this supposed to put any fear into me, "Note that I am a physicist"? But with your superior knowledge, tell me how you produce the BIG BANG when you got nothing at your disposal (my point 1 above)? When I asked MikeH he threw all his toys out the cot. How about you? You can post as many formulas as you choose in this thread. It matters squat. Why? Go and read your own post again…slowly…! Can you spot the flaw? Here’s a clue – it is the word theory. So you need to build the LHC to give any substance to your theories. Why? Never mind whether you are talking to atheists, agnostics or believers about all your fancy theories, all you need is some rational thinking to point out the stupidity of the whole thing. And my guess is that more and more rational thinkers are pointing out to science the absurdity of these theories. And you just don’t have anything left in defence. So what do you do? You need to build the LHC! And to encourage like thinkers, you award them the Noble Prize (spelling mistake deliberate), so as to say, “Hey guys, don’t give up yet. We’ve got to be able to defend this thing!” I concede that the theory of EVOLUTION is PLAUSIBLE. But it goes up in smoke when the BIG BANG theory fails. We got plenty of lurkers reading this thread. They are going to start throwing your theories back into your face. Be ready with some new answers. The old ones won’t do the trick anymore. PS. Have you stuck a copy of my post on your fridge yet? PPS: Back to the Pink Floyd lyrics:

Which part of my post did you not understand? I really, really, really hope that every other scientist on planet earth who rejects the possible existence of a super-natural being echoes this view of yours, “There is NO PLAUSIBLE ALTERNATIVE.” The theory of EVOLUTION is 100% dependant on the BIG BANG theory. When the BIG BANG theory fails, the EVOLUTION theory fails as well. And so we have the LHC. When the LHC fails to deliver, how are scientists going to explain how the universe came into existence, let alone the diversity of living things on planet earth? Now your theory of EVOLUTION has had its legs chopped right off. The best part here is that it was chopped off by you yourselves (the scientists). You never needed any help from any of the following to point out the flaw in the theory, a) atheists, b) agnostics, or c) believers. You did it all alone. Together the scientists spent like how many years to “perfect” this theory? You held the perfect hand for your “perfect” theory, one which you kept on throwing into the face of anyone who thought differently to yourselves. And then what do you do? You revoke! All your years of hard work you yourselves come and blow to pieces! Wow! That’s a BBO expert on display! If you (and likewise thinkers) cannot see that with the failure of the BIG BANG theory, the scientists are steadily painting themselves into a corner from which there is no escape, then there is nothing anyone can do to help you. PS: Have you stuck my post onto your fridge yet?

Ok, let me put you out of your misery (or maybe put you into real misery). Science has put ALL THEIR EGGS INTO ONE BASKET with the LHC. They have rejected outright the existence of a super-natural being as the creator of the universe and everything that is in it. So they need to come up with an alternative. No one knows but the current CONSENSUS is the BIG BANG theory. The flaw in the BIG BANG theory is really quite simple: 1. How or with what do you create the BIG BANG when there is in existence a big fat nothing; no light, no air, no wind, no water, no material of any kind whatsoever, no gravity, etc. Absolutely nothing! 2. But an even worse flaw in this theory is this: How can this BIG BANG suddenly bring into existence all the elements in 1 above. Yet scientists have convinced themselves that this bizarre theory of theirs is more credible than the existence of a super-natural being who did it all. 3. Another flaw in the theory: As posted higher up in this thread, all known BIG BANGS destroy. Any BIG BANG of this size and nature would quite simply have vaporised the material (the starting point) which the scientists so desperately need to find to give this bizarre theory any plausibility. Once you have found the material so desperately needed, you can start making whatever calculation you desire to prove whatever you want to. Example: A 9-year old was asked, How much is 2 + 2? He answered 4. A lawyer was asked the same question and immediately he rounded up as many witnesses he could find to test the accuracy of the 9-year olds answer. A scientist was asked the same question and he answered, What do you want the answer to be? Which pretty much sums up the BIG BANG theory and all the further underlying calculations. If you still havent seen it, let me take it a step further. Once the LHC fails to produce the desired result (and it will fail), both the BIG BANG theory AND the theory of EVOLUTION go up in smoke. It was much easier to put together the theory of EVOLUTION. Scientists knowledge of the diversity of every kind of living thing steadily increased over the years. Plotting all these living things into a plausible theory about EVOLUTION became easier as our knowledge increased. But once the BIG BANG theory fails, the scientists have nothing as to how the universe originated, let alone a theory on the EVOLUTION of all life. No BIG BANG, no miraculous appearance of the material so desperately needed, no universe, no earth, no life whatsoever on earth, and therefore no EVOLUTION. Both have collapsed. Cut this post out and stick it on your fridge. You heard it first in the BBO Forums. With EVERY FAILURE of the LHC, science (and like thinking governments) are going to throw more and more money at it. What is the current budget? 9 Billion? (I never bothered to look up the actual figure again). Revisit the article on Wikipedia every year on the 16th of October (the date of this post), and follow the progress made with the LHC. More importantly take note of the steadily rising costs, and still they got nothing!

Can you really not see what’s at stake here? I think MikeH saw it immediately. I had a peek over the wall to see what he is up to. He is frantically working on all sorts of ideas TO ENSURE THAT THE LHC BRINGS IN THE DESIRED RESULT. And therein lies your clue: Think LHC.

Welcome back brother Mike! These forums will never be the same without all the drivel that you post. I was missing you already.

Can anyone spot the problem here? And I am not referring to the word “Theory.” That of itself is already a very thorny issue for the MikeH’s of the world. I am referring to the much bigger glaring issue at stake here? You be the first one to answer.

From MikeH's silence, is it safe to say that these are the only two theories that we are dealing with here?

How many theories are we dealing with? I know of - 1. The BIG BANG Theory 2. The Theory of Evolution What are the others?

I know that the Jews reject your point 1 but don't have the detail. Can you fill me in on the detail?

Your argument is very conveniently biased towards anti-religion. Why not try and share your views with MikeH and similar thinkers on the absolute absurdity of the BIG BANG theory and all its flaws. This thread has already pointed out some. I am waiting for the day when an enlightened free-thinking scientist starts looking into the numbers of how they got to the 14 500 000 000 figure in the first place and points out all sorts of errors in the calculation. What are you going to label him/her? So we have already shed off 800 000 000 years? This thing won the 2013 Nobel Prize? Here is an extract from the article on Wikipedia, "one of the great engineering milestones of mankind." Have a look at what they say on “Cost.” What’s the point of this thing in the first place when the starting point is flawed?

MikeH: I am really concerned about you. You are obsessed in your self-denial about the possible existence of a super-natural being. Yet from the type of books which you are so carefully selecting to read, it has to be obvious to all that you are seeking answers about the unknown. Thus far you have expressed virtually no opinion of your own in this thread. Instead you keep regurgitating other people’s theories/arguments which you have gleaned from the books you are reading. The wall which you are cowering behind is already frighteningly high. And you have given it a very convenient name: Atheist/Atheism! At what level is your disappointment gauge already standing after every new book read, and still no progress has been made towards answering your self-denial? This thread has already pointed two flaws in the current consensus. The same goes for this years Nobel Prize awarded. The model has a flaw. And still no break-through after throwing billions at the project? Suppose a worldwide poll was held in which every one of the 7 billion plus inhabitants was forced to participate. The question on the ballot paper is this: HOW DO YOU BELIEVE THE UNIVERSE AND EVERYTHING IN IT ORIGINATED? Voters are given the following two choices – 1. It all started with a BIG BANG 14 500 000 000 years ago 2. It came about at the hands of a super-natural being How do you believe the vote will go? You may easily end up with a situation where the number of spoilt ballot papers outnumbers 1 & 2 combined. How do you think option 1 is going to fare? I got some good news for you. It matters not how high you build your wall, people like myself will become taller so that we can peek over the top and see what you are up to on the other side. I have no idea how many have come before me who have thrown you a life-line to pull you out of the cesspool of self-denial that you find yourself in. The choice is still yours; to eventually sink away altogether or pull yourself out. In my early twenties I was trapped in a very similar situation to the one you are now in. I too rejected outright the possible existence of a super-natural being. I too was carefully selecting the books and newspaper articles which I was reading to back up my self-denial. I too was engaging believers in all sorts of arguments; if there is a God why does he allow all this misery and inequality and diseases and rape and murder and whatever you care to name? Everything changed for me in my late twenties when I began having identical recurring nightmares over a period of 18 months or so. Everything in the nightmare was always exactly the same. I would be trying to get out of bed to go to the bathroom, but something which I can only describe as a formless black weight, pinned me down in my bed. So I would start fighting this thing. The fight would continue until I was totally exhausted and no longer had any energy left to fight. The moment I stopped fighting, this formless black weight would start taking shape. The fear that took hold of me at this point is impossible to describe. I found myself calling upon the very God who I had totally rejected as being real, to come and drive this thing away. Always at this point of the nightmare, a light would appear to my right, the formless black weight to the left with myself in the middle. A tug-of-war ensued, and as soon as my plea for help became desperate enough, the light would fill the nightmare and I would wake up, drenched in perspiration. Once awake I would barely even mutter a “Thank You,” before dismissing the whole incident as nothing more than a nightmare. The problem here was this nightmare continued for 18 months, and each time it was identical in every aspect. It slowly began dawning on me that God was reaching out to me. When I realised that, I cut a deal with him in my complete ignorance. I am too embarrassed to share the details of that deal, but it boiled down to: “God, if you will do this for me, I will return to you and your church.” God kept his side of the deal and now I was faced with the dilemma of upholding my side of it. I hadn’t seen the inside of a church for maybe 10 years and was afraid to return alone. So I called my sister and her husband and asked them if I could join them the next Sunday. And so I took a first step. We could have sat anywhere in the church but chose a seat on the extreme left (call it hiding in the shadows if that were in any way possible). Now this church had a crucifix in the front with Jesus hanging on it, his face turned to the right. You already know what’s coming. Every time I looked up at the preacher, it was impossible to avert the crucifix. Every time I looked up, it was as though Jesus hanging on the crucifix was looking straight at me. I left the service desperately trying not to show any emotion. I got through two sermons with my sister and her church before giving up on them. Why? Rookie that I was, I was incredibly uncomfortable with the things that this church does. But I still had my side of the deal to uphold. I felt a prompting to go back to the church I frequented as a youngster. So the following Sunday I found myself with the Presbyterians. The minister’s sermon that Sunday? He presented the parable of the lost son. Again I found myself choking back my emotions as I felt that the entire sermon was for me. Was it just a coincidence? You decide. The following day (Monday) I relocated to a new job in the town where I currently still reside. To spare you too much further agony in reading this, I joined a church here and became quite active in it until the late 1990s. It was when I started doing my own research into the stuff of the Bible, and digging up all sorts of things, that I became more and more disappointed with institutionalised religion. Much of what they do and preach has no Biblical foundation whatsoever. I left institutionalised religion for good at the end to the 1990s. The beauty and simplicity of God’s plan and purpose with us is so mind boggling that even the Jews who brought us this incredible story, rejected it. So I am inviting you to take your first step as well. Start with something that won’t threaten you in any way e.g. make a printout of the link higher up in this thread and watch the Matrix movie again. Invite Vampyr to join you. Her wall is starting to up at a pace that anyone in the construction industry would be envious to match. The two of you can start your search together. Vampyr is going to escape from behind the wall before you? Why is that? Answer: Her wall is not (yet) as high as yours, so she doesn’t have as far to climb to get out. God bless you my brother. Until we meet (and we will meet because God has guaranteed it; how it takes place is our decision). I have started asking my God to remove the scales from your eyes so that you can see him as well.

Mike, Mike, Mike!!!! I'm really worried about you. In what way has this benefitted the top predator in any way? But the worst part of your post? We're back to this stupid BIG BANG theory which is flawed in its very reasoning.

Let's start small. 1. We have been studying for umpteen years how bees make honey. Has anyone managed to replicate the process yet? 2. Bird's Nest Soup is very popular in places like China. Has anyone managed to replicate the process yet? Both of these should surely be within man's grasp by now? After all we have been around for the last 100,000 years and the top of the food chain.

I have a question: How much (or more specifically, what) has man been able to reproduce of, either in the natural world, or the universe all around us?

MikeH – Reread this post of yours which you so proudly posted here. Thus far science is bit by bit figuring out how the things in our universe or on our planet FUNCTION. Science has yet to figure out how all this diversity CAME ABOUT. So they come up with bizarre theories and then spend (waste) huge amounts of money trying to prove these bizarre ideas (e.g.giant collider). Maybe, just maybe – they are looking for the wrong answers.