TWO4BRIDGE

The 4NT-RKC "pecking order" when NO suit has been agreed ( not that I would bid 4NT over 3D ): 1. The strong 2C bidder's suit. 2. The strong jump shifter's suit. 3. The jump rebidder's suit. ( 3♦-jump rebid here ). 4. The last bid suit.

Well, I do have a tool ( toy ), but I didn't think it would work on this weak of a hand, but after running some practice hands ( vis Richard Pavlicek's hand generator ), I found that most deals ended up making 11 tricks... and only a few just made 10 tricks... And there were some that made 12 tricks. 1) You are guaranteed at least an 8 card fit ( or better ) in both of the 2 red suits. 2) My latest system is "key-showing" ( 6 Ace )and does not include the Q's ( they can be asked for later ONLY if all 6 keys are accounted for ). Edit:3) bid only 5C/5H with only 4 keys ... bid 6C/6H with 5 keys Take this one for example: [hv=pc=n&w=sak9hk5dqj84cak64&e=s32hat9643dcqt852]266|100[/hv] 2NT.......3D! 3H........4C! ( ostensibly 5h/5c, slammish ) ?? ..4D! = warning of NO Diam Ctrl ( next step ) ..4H! = warning of NO Sp Ctrl ( edit: 2nd step ) After: 4D!....... ?? ...............4H! ( no Diam Ctrl either; partner may pass ) .............. Next 3 steps are key-showing w/Diam Ctrl ................4S! = 0 or 3 ...............4NT! = 1 or 4 (Opener realizes it is only 1 key ) ................5C! = 2 After: 4NT! 6C ( 4+1 = 5 keys total of 6 ) ( the hand might even make 13 tricks )

I have neither the tools nor the "space" to find the magic Opener hand for slam with this weak Responder; so I'll just transfer to Hts ( Texas if you play that )for a 4H game only.

If you are playing 2/1 GF, then 1x-2y, 2NT = 12-14 or 18,19 and Opener will go past 3NT with the 18,19; and 1x 2y, 3NT = 15-17 picture bid.

If not playing Puppet( or Muppet ( ie regular Stayman only ) then I can use: 1) 5s/5h, Slammish: 2NT - 3D! - 3H - 3S! 2) 5s/5h, game only: 2NT - 3H! - 3S! - 4H! 3) Stayman for all else: 4M hand and including any 4M/6oM, or 4M/6minor ........ ie. NO Stayman for a 5s/5h ......

You definitely are in slam territory ( your 14 and ostensibly partner's 17 ). I like your 3♠ call followed by 4♦ showing that 3♠ was an advance cue for Diam., slammish.

Same as Phil... classic Leaping Michaels = strong, both minors.

Texas Transfers are ON over interference thru 3C only. ...... because: 1NT - ( 3D ) - 4D! is needed for Stayman..... ...... and thus: 1NT - ( 3D) - 4H is not a transfer either

I'd like to see anyone of these methods get to slam with the following hand. One thing that must happen is that Opener needs to find out about Responder's SIX cards in ♥. Just showing 3 cards won't cut it. And Responder does NOT have a 2nd 4 card suit. Most of these systems seem to have bids for a 2nd suit. It was posted here ( in A & E ) back in Sept 9, 2009 by dicklont [http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/34053-slam-try-after-2nt-rebid/page__p__393388__hl__%2Bslam+%2Btry+%2Bafter+%2B2nt+%2Brebid__fromsearch__1#entry393388 ] . The title was: Slam try after 2NT rebid . NO ONE posted a complete auction to 6H.... using their system. skaeran said : But he did not elaborate.... even when asked. [hv=pc=n&w=sa432haqdat94ckqt&e=skqjhkj7542d5cj98]266|100[/hv] 1D - 1H 2NT - ?? continue ( and explain ) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now gnasher said a 4D!-jump ( after 2NT ) is a self-splinter for Hts ( showing 6+hts )! ! I liked it, but is it really ? I do know that 4D! is a self-splinter in the following auction ( after a 1NT rebid ): 1D - 1H 1NT- 4D! ( because if it were a real Diam support bid, Responder would go through NMF first ! )

One more addition to Zel's refinement. If Opener makes a "warning" bid of 4D! = no Diam Ctrl, then Responder: .... 4H! = "accept" the warning for pass or correct to 4S; whereas: .... 4S! = " decline" the warning and continue with reply of Ace-RKC, starting with 4NT! = 0/3. Here is an example I retrieved from the Hand Generator: ( click on bids for explanation ) [hv=pc=n&w=sqj9haq9dq5cakq84&e=sak643hkj743d7c96&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=2np3d(transfer)p3hp3s(5s/5h%2C%20slammish)p4d(NO%20Diam%20Ctrl)p4s(ignore%20warning)p5s(2%20+%202%20Q%27s)p6h(pass%20or%20correct)ppp]400|300[/hv] If I had used my original scheme, I still would have been in slam but LUCKY that I Responder had a stiff Diam. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now let's reverse Responder's minor holding : [hv=pc=n&w=sqj9haq9dq5cakq84&e=sak643hkj743d96c7&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=2np3dp3hp3sp4dp4h(pass%20or%204S)ppp]400|300[/hv]

Zel's post 9: Looks great!... much better! ... having the ability to run-out at 4M ( rather than 5M ) after identifying 2 quick losers in a minor without costing anything in the slam investigation . But I'm "running out" .... of euros . :blink:

I've always thought that Roman Jumps are best used over a Weak-2D ... rather than any Lebensohl. Roman ( big-2 suiter ) Jumps over weak-2D: 4C = C/H = bid suit and next higher 3H = H/S 3S = S/C 4D = 4 4 1 4 3D = stop-ask ( for 3NT ) 4H/4S = to play Just guessing what the DBL would mean: DBL! = T/O ( weaker than 4D! ) OR long suit somewhere ( like Dake's DAPO, but I don't know the follow-ups )

If you are willing to give up the long one-suited overcall, then, after 3S ( 3M ) : 4C! = Cl and Hts ( the other Major ) 4D! = Diam and Hts ( the other Major ) 4S! = the minors ( 4M!-cue)

I still think that a direct 4D! is a Texas Transfer to Hts ( "Texas ON over Interference " ) So the 4D! after Leb2NT would = both Majors Even with continued interference: ( 1D ) - 1NT - ( 2D ) - 2NT! ( 3D ) - p - ( p ) - 4D! should be both Majors

I have another "refinement". Again, thx to Adam ( awm ) . ... Sry, Zel... but presently, I'm still going to use 3S! = 5s/5h, slammish. I've generated some hands ( Opener/Responder ) using Richard Pavlicek's Bridge Toy ( XBP3 )-- Bidding Practice Dealer. And, although most slams are viable with FIVE ( of 6 ) key cards, I've run into a few problem hands, as I had previously thought about, where there is a worthless doubleton in the minors : 5 5 ( 1 2 ). Then it hit me like a lightning bolt, and I ran naked through the streets ( like Archemides ) yelling " Eureka, I've found it" ! ! - - - Opener's "weakness/misfit" bid should be 3NT! - - - And, the next five bids, starting with 4C!, should become the 6 Ace-RKC "showing" : 4C! = 0/3 ( 0 impossible opposite slammish hand ) 4D! = 1/4 ( 1 highly improbable ) 4H! = 2 + neither Q 4S! = 2 + 1 Q 4NT! = 2 + both Q's Now, Responder has room ( even after the 4NT! bid ) to issue a warning about a worthless doublteton in one of the minors: >> 5C! = worthless x x(x) in Cl ( ergo shortness in Diam ) or 5D! = worthless x x(x) in Diam ( ergo shortness in Cl). For example: Q J x A Q x Q x x A K Q x A K x x x K J x x x x x x 2NT - 3D! 3H - 3S! ( 5/5, slammish ) 4NT! ( 2 + both Q's ) - 5C! ( warning of x x[x]in Cl ) 6H ( to play) Whereas, if Opener had his minor holding reversed: 5H ( to play ) .........[ Of course the opps' are going to be tipped off too and will lead the "warning suit" ] .

Thx, Adam (awm).... You have made both Zel and me happy. I had tucked away in my gray matter somewhere that the 2NT - 3D!, 3H - 3S sequence was essentially "unused" since the Smolen-after-Stayman can show the 4/5. Now, I can have Opener use 4C! ( after 3S! = 5s/5h, slammish ) as the warning bid = weakness/misfit . Then Responder can either heed the warning and bid 4H for pass-or-correct ... ...or 4D! = "yes, I hear you, but I'm ignoring the warning ( since I have a very good hand ) and I want you to reply as 6 Ace-RKC : 2NT - 3D!( transf) 3H - 3S ?? ..4C! = warning; then Responder: ..... >> 4D! = ignore warning; continue as 6 Ace-RKC starting with 4H! = 0/3 ..... >> 4H = accept warning; pass-or-correct to 4S ..4D! = undefined The next 5 steps are "replies" to 6 Ace-RKC again starting with 4H! = 0/3 ..4H! = 0/3 ( 0 impossible opposite slammish hand ) ..4S! = 1/4 ( 1 highly improbable ) .4NT! = 2 + neither Q ..5C! = 2 + 1 Q ..5D! = 2 + both Q's - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Example: Opener with weakness in both Majors.. [hv=pc=n&w=sj4hjt4dakq3cakq5&e=skqt83hkq732dj2c4]266|100[/hv] 2NT - 3D! 3H - 3S! 4C! - 4H! ( for pass-or-correct to 4S ) pass

Texas is ON over interference: So ( 1D ) - 1NT - ( 2D ) - 4D! would be a transfer to Ht. But what is the 4D!-jump AFTER Lebensohl ? (1D) - 1NT - (2D) - Leb2NT! ( p )- 3C! - (p) - 4D! = could it be the Majors, pick one ?

Edit: See my post # 8 for a refinement Edit: See Zel's post # 9 for a better refinement ! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - If Phil's head didn't explode after my 5M/5m post, it may well after this one. I exchanged the red suits in the original hand: [hv=pc=n&w=sak5ht6dkqj9cak97&e=sqt863hkq743da4c5]266|100[/hv] My objective is the same as last time. At worst, there will be at least 5-3 fit in one of the Majors. I need to get the 5s/5h shape and slammish across to Opener. Then Opener's next move is to "reply" as if 6 Ace-RKC were asked: 2NT - 3H! ( transfer ) 3S! - 4H ( 5s/5h, slammish ) ?? ..4S! = 0/3 ( 0 impossible opposite slammish hand ) ..4NT! = 1/4 ( 1 highly improbable ) ..5C! = 2 + neither Q ..5D! = 2 + 1 Q ..5H! = 2 + both Q's After: 4S! - 6H ( for pass or correct ) missing 1 key card 6S - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Game Only... Some may point out that the above transfer sequence thru 4H is standard for "to play game only " for pass or correct to 4S. But it is the only one that gets the 5/5 shape across even if Opener is 3/2 or 2/3 in the Majors. If Opener has 4 cards in one of the Majors, or a 3-3, you won't be able to get your 5/5 message across. So, for a weaker Responder who wants to play "game only" with a 5/5, you start with a Stayman auction.... and next Smolen if no 4 card M( ostensibly showing 5/4 or 4/5 ) and, if need be, complete it with a 4M bid... to play ( when Opener has a 3/2 or 2/3. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Back to the slammish auction, if Responder finds out they are missing 2 key cards, then he signs off with 5H = pass or correct to 5S. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ..... sorry, Zel.... there is no room for Opener to make a "weakness/misfit" bid .

Zel.... I too like to use 4S! Kickback-RKC for ♥ as trump.... ....but, then I'm fond of the Meckwell use of 4NT! as Voidwood for ♥, excluding the ♠ Ace

I won't show the 4 card minor . With a 5M/4m and just game values : Transfer to M, then 3NT rebid. With a 5M/4m and slam invite values: Transfer, then 4NT! = Quantitative ( since the simple transfer only promised 5 cards M ): 2NT - 3H! 3S - 4NT = Quant. ( since Sp is only a 5 card suit) [ Some folks play that if Opener has 3 cards Major, s/he will reply as RKC ] . whereas: 2NT - 4H! ( Texas ) 4S - ?? .........4NT* = RKC for Sp ( w/6+ card suit ) ......or 5C/5D/5H = Exclusion and 2NT - 3H! 3S - 4S = mild slam try ( w/6+ card suit ) __________________________________________________________________________ * Probably a better method rather than having Responder do the "asking" w/6+M is to have Responder "telling" ( similar to Meckwell treatment over 1NT open ): 2NT - 3H! ( simple transfer) 3S - ?? ....... 5C = 0 ( 3 highly improbable ) ....... 5D = 1 ( 4 impossible ) ....... 5H = 2 - sQ ....... 5S = 2 + sQ

What am I missing in your 4th-Suit GF auction ? Why couldn't Opener be 4 2 2 5 ? And if 1♠ didn't promise longer ♣ in the first place, couldn't s/he be 4 3 2 4 ?

where 400 and 300 are the dimensions of the display I want. [hv=myhand=M-3334119-1289187901]400|300[/hv] I just changed the dimensions to 600|400 .... to test it out: [hv=myhand=M-3334119-1289187901]600|400[/hv] It does work... thx !

I think you would have to have a system like xy-1NT, but am not that familiar with it. 1C - 1D 1NT - ?? .........2C! = forces 2D for further description ( invite hands ) or sign-off by passing 2D .........2D! = GF ( I think ... but not sure )

yes, ATB to "lack of inverted minors" . But why was the 1S rebid ( by Opener ) excluded from her choices ? That deserves another ATB. 1C - 1D ( not my choice, but 1D is bid "for a reason" and does not exclude a 4 card Major ) 1S - 2H! ( 4th Suit GF ... I hope this is an option ! ) 3C - 4C! ( Minorwood in a GF auction ) 4NT* - 5D ( specific K-ask ) 6C ( no outside K's ) __________________________________ * 4NT = 4th step, 2 + cQ

Splinters.... ya gotta luv 'em ! ! You ( North) ....... Partner 1C .................... 2C! ( GF, denies 4 Major ) 3D! ( splinter) ..... 4S! ( splinter ) 4NT ( RKC ) ....... 5C ( 0/3 ) ?? ..5D(next step= cQ-ask) ..5H(2nd step = K-ask ) >> 6C ( no outside K's )