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hi awm thanks for the precis i know the outline is very scrappy an i had trouble with the original post not really interested in "selling" this structure though just posted it because i was working out the new forum posts you have the basic gist of it though a couple of things weak d hands go through 2c an either pass 2d weak or rebid 2nt over 2 M or 3d/ pas over 2nt - 3d not sure with regard to marginal invitational hands strucure is almost always superior to simple transfers and alows you to show both gf minor hands very well c>dand d>c at a low level which are often problem hands for most systems gf 5-5 or 6-5 hands can go through 2nt and rebiding 3nt an up to show the specific hand types the 4441 structure i am still tossing about a bit but there are many opperyunities to show specific 4441 structures general min + bal hand try would normally be 1nt 2c 2d 2s 2nt ( denies 4s) or (3c shows 4s) then 3h is bal with 4h jumps to 3nt sighn off when major suit situation resolved not sure about what you said about be able to bid a direct 2h with a weak hand but interested in any structure that could cope well with it

1nt 9-12 bal (not vul) may include 5332 hearts 2c see below 2d weak hearts or spades strong hearts or strong diamonds single suit or d + major 2h inv hearts ( 5+) 2s inv spades (5+) 2nt weak clubs or 5-5 with clubs inv+ (or other slam 5-5 or 65) 3c game force c>d 3d 5-5 diamonds and hearts inv 3h 5-5 hearts and spades inv 3s 5-5 spades and diamonds 3nt to play 4c texas hearts 4d texas spades 4h to play 4s to play 4nt aces! Not quant ( 2c is range probe) 2c shows weak diamonds or strong diamonds and clubs Weak both majors Inv + bal Inv 4441 or strong Inv c or c+M Diamonds + major inv Strong spades Strong clubs ss or clubs + a major Continuations after 2c Responses 2d = min (not 5h) 2h max 3+h h>=S 2s max 3+s s>h 2nt min 5h 3c max 5h d supt 3d max 5h c supt After 1nt 2c 2d pass weak d or weak d>c or ( d > major inv) 2h weak both majors or 4h inv (if part correct 2s then 2nt 3c 3d is to play) 2s inv ( + 4s) either bal or gf long spades part raises 3c with min 4s or else 2nt) 2nt min to play 4+c ( not 4h or 4s or 5d with 4c p can correct to 3c ) 3c strong clubs or c> major 3d strong d>c 3h strong ( bal ) 4h 5s 4c weak h 3s strong (bal) 4s 5s 4c weak d 3nt strong to play (5s 4c 22) 4c splinter agreeing spades 1nt 2c 1nt 2c 2d 2s 2d 2nt 3c (inv c) 3c stong c or c or c + M 3d s>d unbal 3d strong d> c un bal 3h bal 4 h 3h 5s 332 or 5s an 4h (3s = heart supt 3nt = no supt 4c+=s supt) 3s s>c d shtg 3s s>c h shtg 3nt 5422 d 3nt 5422 c 2h pass weak both majors 2s inv + 4s either bal or gf various ( simple alt with long spades) 2nt weak d>c or weak d ( other possibilities 4441) 3c strong clubs or c> major 3d strong d>c 3h both M strong ( bal ) 4h 3s both M strong (bal) 4s 3nt strong to play 4c splinter agreeing spades 2s pass weak both majors 2nt weak d>c or weak d (or 4441) 3c strong clubs or c> major 3d strong d>c 3h 5 spades slam interest 3s 4s raise or correct 3nt to play 4c splinter agreeing spades 2nt pass to play (inv c hands have to decide weather to pass or 3h or 3c) 3c weak c 3d weak d 3h weak h or majors 3s gf 3nt = xton s 3nt to play 4c splinter 3c 3d to play 3h to play 3s game force s 3nt to play 4c splinter agreeing spades 3d pass to play 3h to play 3s game force s 3nt to play 4c splinter agreeing spades After 1nt 2d 2h not 5h 2s 5332 h Over 2h pass weak h 2s weak spades 2nt gf d or d>M 3c gf h>c gf ds 3d gf h>d gfd 3 h gf h gf dh 3s gf h>s 3nt 5332 h (5h 4m22) 4c splinter agreeing h Over 2s as above except 3h to play Problem hands 6c + 4 major inv After 1nt 2c 2d 2s 2nt 3c inv c?s 3d s>d with shtg 3h s > h or 44 3s 5s 3nt( 4s) to play 1nt 2c 2d After 1nt 2d 2h 3c ? h c inv (treat as forcing) 5 spades + 4h weak (rebid 2h over 2d)

sorry this post is so half baked not really thinking about it slight errors above after 1nt 2c 2d 2h weak both majors or inv 4h ton play in 4-3 fit w/out s convert to 2nt over 2s reply 2s incl inv 4s 2nt to play 3c strong d>m 3d strong d 3h strong bal 4h 3nt strong bal no major as i said if there is any interest i can outline method in full an acurately

had trouble working out posting so here is the 2c bid ( weak d weak both M strong 5s inv bal weak or inv+ d) responses 2c 2d min 2h max 3h 2s max 3s 2nt min 5h ( optional i play 5h in nt not 5s) 3c maxc 5h xton d 3d max 5h 3 d over 2d pass weak to inv d 2h weak both maj 2s forcing s ( maybe inv 4s partner raises with 4s or bids 2nt) 2nt weak both minors d or strong d + M 3c strong d>c 3d strong d 3h + strong 5h 4s 2h pass weak 2s forcing 4+s 2nt as above weak d or strong d +M 3c weak c and d 3d strong d 3h raise (4h) or bid 3nt 2s as for 2h strong s raise is forcing 2nt + pretty much self explanatory complicated but prob worth it can tell you the rest if anyones interested

2c multi ( many meanings) 2d weak major or srong h 2h inv 5h 2s inv 5s 2nt 5-5 with c inv or weak c 3c strong c 3d 5h 5d inv 3h 5h 5s inv 3s 5s 5d inv

at red vs green maybe pass should be weak hand or 3+h letting p pass more easily and x a weak t/o of h 1s normal t/o minor oriented

have you ( both looked) at a variation on the viking club theme where 1d 1h for example could be h gf or a spade hand with responders bids of 2h > show both majors allowing p to drop out into 3s to play if they have to then 1s = c or bal or 3-suited short s ( incl sht spade in bal resolustion) 1nt = d 2c = ss 2d = min both majors or 5-5 ( 2h relay +1 step 2s to play) 2h max h>s 2s 3 suited with spades 2nt max s>h step or break here ars 4s hands while double step = gfr e.g. 1d 1h 1s 2c gfr then 2d bal 2h reverser this means 1d 1s becomes nt trans got its -ves but you might be able to work it out over 1d showing spades 1h would be gf or h) good luck

i think its a good idea plus alleviating the problem of not having to make an uncomfortable bid after a 1d or 1h opening that sometimes happens would agree that moscito needs at leat one major transfer responses to work well and as an aside that after an opening from partner transfers are quite different you may also be able to drop your opening requirments for 1d showing spades by a point because of the extra room ( personally i would drop it from 11 -15 to 10 -15 but i guess it wouldn't be moscito then)

sorry if i upset anyone some of the -ve i found were 1 15+ club was to low 2 10+ opening seems not to work as well as 11+ for technical reasons (xcept perhaps in spades) 3 canape style openings work best in competition if there are some restrictions and flexibliity in suit quality for openings (a la blue club) (lead directional 4-3 fits etc) 4 if you play transfer vairiants of moscito ( 1d =h etc) this gives up to the opponents the two bites of the cherry (x and cue) without the corresponding weak strong relay option advantage you have if (1c = h) 5 this is only my opinion and outlines some of the prblems i found ( wasnt overfond of various 1nt incarnations in moscito either ) but each to there own luck all

about page 44-46 in the history are some posts on little major variants

played forcing pass moscito an others of them all for me moscito has always been a fair way behind

dont want to stir anyone up to much but do other people think (than myself) think moscito is not that great a system

what do people think for example of after 1s p 2d p 2h min (may have 4d )2s becomes non forcing misfit (p passes 6s min or 5 very good s min 2nt min bal or c 3c min 5-5 3d min 4d etc natural 2nt becomes g.f inquiry then 3c 5s 4+c min may have d supt 3d diamond supt 5 or 6 spades 3h min bal no diamond suport 3s min 6s not 3d 3nt 6s scatered values outside diamonds 4x cue 6 good s 4s 6 good spades no shtg

it occurs to me when in natural auctions 2m is forcing to 2nt or beyond the meanings of a 2h rebid and 2s should be switched e.g. 1s p 2d p then 2s shows 5s 4h an 2h should show " other hand types" seems common sense space saving sure this has been covered somewhere does anyone know recomended scheme of responses

what do people think of a cancape defense style similar to the old super precision over 1nt where x of 2d natural an 2h natural is a trans to 4+cd major

never been a good speller my daughter says efficacy is correct spelling

best defense to 1nt defenses there seems very little litreture in general the merits of t/o xs vs penalties of natural overcalls and passing then balancing over artifical bids and what direct xs then show does anyone have a scheme they believe in personaly t/o xs of natural overcalls seem lose there normal effacy in this situation what do people think

the reason i think it works is a posistional thing the hands fall into a few categories those with spade suport in which case it mainly becomes a lead directional scenario those that moderate are single suited hearts where you get the hand of your chest where you might not have a bid those with hearts and a minor where you are now well placed to penalize the oponnents (your hearts over x partners spades over lho s (if lho short s then p has long s and will bid them)) when you are weak with both minors 1nt strong with a minor 2c/d weak ss minor 3c/3d

It clarifies the penalty posistion which is important over 1s without 4h a pass then a double for penalties comes into play including an action x of 2h i.e. with one or both minors and three hearts to an honor

after a 1s x auction i was looking at xx to show 4+ hearts up to game force 1nt now becomes the minors 2m unchanged this has the advantage of freeing up 2h as a forcing cue bid in many auctions and a direct 2h now beomes a gf cue or natural gf re bid of hearts now is natural hearts wondering what people thought of this treatment or anything similar they may have heard of thanks

it seems to me as everyonr points out sometimes one sometimes the other would the best approach be over 3c / 3d / 3h with low start relatively flat hands 321 might be best and 3s+ ( or 10 cards in 2-suits and a 6 card suit a2 k1 might be better

not sure here but two factors to consider here the dynamics of doubling 4d and lower is quite different to game if you double game and it makes who cares but bringing bacck 4c or d x making is a lot more painfull normally 1c 1h 1s 3h x is t/o and a pass encourages partner to x anyway though he will bid 3nt with a stop when he knows you are unlikely to have a penalty x ( because of his own reasonable hs) so inversion applies here any way to some extent though quite differently than over 4M + where you have to decide if to try the 5 level or opt for a power based penalty good luck

far as i can see the advantage is if you want to slam try e.g 1c 2h 3d 4h pass here tells p to x then when 4h x comes back to the 1c bidder and he bids 4s this is a slam try in spades as opposed to a direct 4s over 4h it allows the 1c bidder to take more control of the auction by alowing him 2 ways to bid a suit or raise p it also allows the posibility of plying in 4nt when a direct 4nt would be blackwood via the double it becomes to play e.g. with the above hand you hold ax aq xx akqxxxxx you pass then over x bid 4nt if you can see anything else to it please post as i am interested

because of the relative low frequency of both these hand types it seemed more sensible to combine them than having 2nt and three spades seperate allowing a direct 3s ( over 1s) to be a mixed raise this would leave the 3s bid to be used more frequently and be less vunerable to the aforementioned actions (x and cueing 3s) I was hoping it would not impact on the responsees to severely either except 3s would be min bal 3nt 6s max 4x 5-5 max and 4s min 6s ( the four level responses may also well presure those who elect to pass iniatially with a weak style t/o

been playing round with various major raise schemes always been a fan of 2nt being strong bal 16+ (incl spades supt ) in precision style but thought i could probably squeeze in an option for it being also a weak pre-emptive raise 3-6 points interested in what people think thanks