Thanks Nick. I did search the (old) forums and found some useful stuff. I realize now that by default it only searches the past month. In response to your questions: 1) We play a primarily at IMPs - at matchpoints we do open 2C less often (the system gives us the flexibility to open 1D, 1M or 1NT instead). There are a couple of reasons we've decided to keep some 4M hands in the 2C opening. 1M is ONLY 4 when canape with a longer minor (and some appropriate 4441s) so we can raise it aggressively. And although 2C is constructively poor, it does put the opponents under pressure and also has good lead directional value (particularly when compared to the lead direction of a weak 4c Major). The other issue opening 1M is the difficulty of untangling the clubs. Specifically, after 1M - 1NT(up to 12-13 and semi-forcing) openers 2C rebid is artificial (Gazzilli-ish) , showing either a weak hand with diamonds OR any maximum (14-15 HCP) with 5+M. 1M 1NT 2D* shows clubs in a minimum hand (9-13) but it forces the partnership to the 3 level in clubs. 2) The 2M responses to 2C usually show a 6c suit (only 5 when a very good suit or perhaps 2H with 5/5 in the majors) but it is also limited (maybe a great 7 to a bad 11). With a 5c major and 3 card club support its nice to be able to search for the major fit and fall back on 3C. ---- After a little searching, I came across the Fantunes system (who open 2C on 10-13 5+C). They use 2D as initially asking for 3c majors, but use a couple of extra relays after that to give opener the chance to pattern out their hand. Most interesting is that they use 2C - 2NT to show an invitational hand with 5S 4H which is a definite problem hand.