RichMor

OK, assume 3♥ shows shortness. Then what does 3♣ mean after responder has bid Diamonds and Spades naturally ? Maybe the difference could be the quality of Club support. Raise with Qxx or better and show shortness with lesser Clubs.

I agree with these comments. IMO, the current trend in '2/1' methods is to treat a passed hand 2/1 response as promising a below-game rebid.

Regardless of what we think of the bidding, does West deserve any blame for making the 'genius' Heart lead instead of a mundane Club ? IMO, West deserves at least 50% for the lead. Guess that leaves 50% to East for not reading the lead and signalling correctly.

Pass at matchpoints, pull to 2♠ at IMPs.

Good comment IMO. The first slam try should tell pard how we hope to make it, not how we hope to avoid losing the first 2 tricks. Up the line control bidding, showing first or second round control, is more effective after we know something about the general fit of the 2 hands. After a natural 4♣ slam try, opener can evaluate and cooperate. Upgrade for secondary honors and length in Hearts and Clubs. Upgrade for controls in Spades and Diamonds. Opener can cue bid with a good hand in context or retreat to 4♥ with a bad hand. Look at some example hands from Ken. ♠Kxx ♥AQxx ♦AQxx ♣xx. ♠Kxx ♥AQxx ♦AQx ♣xxx. ♠Kxx ♥AQxx ♦Axx ♣Qxx. ♠Kxx ♥AQxx ♦Axxx ♣Qx. Wouldn't you rather know about responder's Clubs and slam interest instead of a first or second round Spade control ?

Yes. If we could send the BBO Forum in a time machine back to the 1980s and change 'Polish Club' to 'Precision Club' then the discussion would be about the same. Back then I was one of the young punks(less than 50 years old) playing that funny Precision system(not what Mr Goren taught us to play) We alerted and explained everything that had any specific systemic meaning. The LOLs still acted like we were doing 'something funny' to them. One auction was something like this: 1♣ - (1♠) - Dbl - (P) P- (P) The opening bid was alerted and explained as 16+ HCP, forcing for one round, and showing nothing about Clubs or any other suit. The Double was alerted and explained as for takeout showing 5 to 7 HCP and balanced distribution. The overcall was just a little 'lead director' on Qxxx or something and the final number was 800 or something. The overcaller looked shocked and said something like 'but he opened 1♣ when he had Spades'. So it goes.

70% for West 20% for East 10% for bad luck. Whether you consider the West hand a good 1NT overcall or you don't, I think it is wrong for West to pass. If not 1NT then double.

To answer the original question; I would add these treatments/conventions to SAYC with a frequent partner: 1. New Minor Forcing - a vanilla version 2. Smolen Transfers after 1NT - 2♣ / 2♦ 3. Unusual versus Unusual / major Michaels - also a vanilla version 4. Some kind of forcing minor raise - probably a jump in the other minor. All of there are fairly high frequency and effective.

It's been a long time, but I think I remember 'Matchpoint Precision' as using a natural 2♣ opening that denied a 4-card major and the traditional Precision 2♦ opening; 3-suited with short Diamonds. So a 1♦ opening did not promise one or two 4-card majors. I did play 'modified Matchpoint Precision' where 2♦ was natural with no 4-card major. Then a 1♦ opening did show one or two 4-card majors and did not promise any specific length in Diamonds. I asked a few directors at Regionals if this was permissable under ACBL regulations and the answers I got was yes. That was more that 10 years ago.

Without too much deep thought, it seems to me that: 1. a double of a transfer response should be takeout of the target suit. 2. a cue of the target suit should be about the same as a cue of a natural response. So 1♣-(P)-1♥-(1♠) is the same as 1♣-(P)-1♠-2♠ It is sort of standard in the US to play the cue as a 2-suiter with Hearts and a minor. So we get to show the same hand at the one level. Good deal.

Well I'm glad someone brought up the 'noun, verb, POW' topic. I can't begin to imagine what it must have been like to be a POW in a hostile country. John McCain's courage in terrible circumstances does say something profound about his character. So I think it is legitimate and sensible for a voter to consider McCains character when considering him as a candidate. But still.............. McCain is making more and more references to his POW experience to deflect honest criticism of his policies and pronouncements. He can't remember how many houses he and his wife own but he can 'remember a time when I didn't have a table or a chair'(rough quote). I think McCain is disrespecting a large number of veterans, MIAs, and KIAs by cheapening their stories for his own political ends.

Since you present this as a problem, the answer must be don't lead a Spade. It sounds like the dummy is short in Clubs since it bid Hearts, Diamonds, and showed a Spade stopper. Since both opps bid Hearts any losers there aren't going away. Must be a low Diamond by elimination. Am I a life master now ? :lol:

Ahh, that's more clear. I think you don't need any special methods after a reverse since it is limited to 15HCP. Responder can pass or make a minimum non-forcing rebid. With a better hand, responder can bid game or trot out the fourth suit.

Yes that's true. But a candidate tries to look like a 'regular American' when the cameras are on. Recall Hillary Clinton having a beer and and a shot with the good old boys. And most voters accept the fact that a candidate is not just like them. But the voters have a concern when a candidate seems to have no clue about the lives of 'regular Americans'. It wasn't that Bush 1 didn't know the price of bread or that McCain didn't know houw many houses his wife owns. It was more that they didn't understand why anybody would ask or even care.

I don't understand what you mean by 'stop playing reverses'. If you mean that the sequences presented do not show extra values (within a limited Precision context) I suppose that is a playable treatment. I always played these sequences as reverses showing a maximum non-1♣ opener. Responder can Pass or make a non-forcing rebid in: opener's first suit, responders suit, minimum NT, etc. Does that make sense ?

This is a Bush 1 at the supermarket moment. That was an incident long ago when Bush the elder expressed semi-amazement over an automated price scanner at the checkout counter. Then he followed up with a flustered response when asked about the price of bread. The whole thing showed that Bush 1 was out of touch with the lives of average people. Seems like the question - how many houses do you and your wife own - was a set up designed to show that the millionaire McCain was not a 'regular American'. When he couldn't answer the question, it was a double shot; McCain is not a 'regular American' with one house plus he's senile and/or evasive. Perfect.

There is an story in an old Comp Sci book (think it is "The Phychology of Computer Programming") about a little tracking study done by IBM. They measured the performance of new hires on some simple fair/good/ real good scale based on informal surveys. The results were correlated with the hew hires' educational background. The results showed that the various 'fine arts' people were rated over the various business or science people. This was before there were many Computer Science programs. The highest rated group was music majors. Something else to look for is time wasted playing bridge. It sharpens the mind and makes one used to suffering.

Responder was limited but not opener. 1D then rebid 2C is not considered a "limited" bid since it is made on any hand short of a game-forcing jump shift. From a min opener up to about 17 HCP. Opener's 3rd bid now shows a game invitation. Since responder has a max for previous bidding, responder accepts openers invite. It does not make sense that responder wants to show 3 value ranges: 3C, 4C and 5C when responder is 6-9. So 4C must be forcing. I don't see any advantage to bidding 4C rather than 5C. There is no slam here. I thot Brian's description and analogy were perfect. That's a good analysis; opener has a wide range and responder a narrow range after the second round of bidding. When opener makes a game try on the third round responder can either decline or accept. All fine. But why does responder need 2 ways to accept; 4♣ and 5♣ ? Is 4♣ some kind of slam try by a hand with 6-9 HCP ? Most invitational sequences don't allow responder to show "3 value ranges" after opener's invitational call. But this one does so why not take advantage?

Can't put it any better.

I think 4♣ (non forcing) is about right. If the Spade ace was in one of the other suits, then 5♣. Can any of the 4♣ (forcing) bidders explain how they went from a non-forcing simple preference - 2♦ - to a forcing Club raise ?

Two simple questions: 1. If I can jump to 4♣ to show 4=4=4=1 can I also jump to 4♠ to show 1=4=4=4 ? :) The same logic(?) should apply. 2. What is the downside of treating all jumps to 4 of pard's minor as RKC?

Assume 'a good 3352' wasn't good enough to open 1NT, good 14HCP maybe? That seems like a reasonable reopening double. What kind of hand would opener hold to: 1. open 1♦ 2. pass partner's 1NT response 3. double a 2♣ balance for penalties ???

Two simple opinions: 1) As a general principle, low level doubles 'under' the bidder are takeout and doubles 'over' the bidder are penalty oriented. In this auction the doubler is 'under' the 2♣ bidder. So that suggests to me that this double should be takeout oriented but allow for a penalty Pass by the 1NT bidder. 2) Doubling the opps in a low level contract that they bid voluntarily(sp ?) means one of two things; you think they misbid or you think the cards are lying badly for their contract. If we assume the opps have not misbid then what type of hand could the 1♦ opener hold that suggests the cards are lying badly for a 2♣ contract? I suppose there are some but I think the hand types that suggest takeout are more likely.

Takeout I think.

IMO, forcing club systems have an advantage in finding superior minor suit games and slams. The edge comes from establishing a game force at a low level. Consider this Precision-style auction: 1♣ - 1NT 2♠ - 2NT 3♣ The opening bid is artificial, the 1NT response is a natural GF, and the rest of the bids are natural. After this start, responder can raise Clubs with the right hand without distorting shape or strength. This might lead to a Club contract that is better than NT. I remember losing a slam swing when my team mates bid 2NT - 3NT. This was a standard 2/1 auction. The opps bid 1♣ - 2♦ .... more bids to a Diamond slam. The opening 1♣ was Precision and the 2♦ response was a natural positive.